Any fast N/A 94-95's with a stock air-box? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
Go Back   Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum > Windsor Tech Forums > 94/95 Tech

Corral.net is the premier Ford Mustang Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-16-2007, 10:17 PM   #1
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (37)
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ohio City, OH
Posts: 8,342

Any fast N/A 94-95's with a stock air-box?

On my 94 cobra I am running a C&L inlet pipe with a pro-m 75mm bullet on it with a cone filter mounted on the MAF right behind the headlite. When I read about CAI's I see mine is not considered good because my filter is in the hot engine compartment. Other CAI's cause probs with the elbow before the meter. So when I look back at a stock 94-95 air box it seems like a pretty well thought system, like sealed off so it gets 100% of it's air from the inner fender, the filter and meter enclosed to protect it from any air movement and protects it from engine heat. The air gets a straight shot thru the meter. The only flaw I can see (if it's a flaw) is the ribbed rubber elbow up to the TB. The tube seems plenty big but just not smooth inside if that hurts flow. Before I went to the C&L inlet pipe I was using the stock airbox with the pro-m inside and I don't know if I actually gained anything with the change. Have you guys dyno'd any improvements or felt a difference when going from a stock airbox to a CAI when using the same mass air meter? Would a mid to high 12 second N/A combo require a better air system than the stock one?
__________________
Just an old carpenter with a 94 Cobra and a Son with a nasty 85GT! I'm Show and he's Go!!
XSPOWER is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-16-2007, 10:40 PM   #2
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (5)
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 654

I'm interested on this also, good thread.
Z.A.P. is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2007, 10:57 PM   #3
Registered User
 
mazroth's Avatar

Trader Feedback: (27)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Mt. Washington, KY
Posts: 895

Ive read over stuff like this for awhile. I dont have any dyno proof, just my opinion. They say that set up with the filter behind the headlight sucks in to much hot air. Im sure it could take a little power from it when its getting nothing but hot air (humid 95 degree day after an hour of driving).

Personally, I like my big air filter there sucking in all the air it can get, more air is good, I feel it can restrict it more putting it elsewhere, but thats just how I feel. Only bad thing about that open filter there is if you drive down a gravel/dirt road, or even in bad weather, that filter will need some serious cleaning, where as if its hiding away then it may not be as bad. But, thats why my car only sees the asphalt, and clear weather.
__________________
-92GT stock w/39k miles
-91LX aod/white hatch
-2011 GT A6/brenspeed/kooks/dynotech/roush tvs
http://advanceautoparts.tellapal.com/a/clk/4KlQ
mazroth is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2007, 01:31 AM   #4
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (7)
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ES,VA
Posts: 863

Suscribing, everyone says my mac cai is crap, I don't really care for the way it looks and the way it sits in the engine bay, however I did get a SOTP boost from it. Also everyone says the metal soaks more heat, faster. I've driven for and hour on a 75 degree day, popped the hood and found the cai to be barely warm. Granted there are times it does get pretty hot, sitting it traffic for example. I should mention my hood is probably why the cai doesn't get very hot considering it forces a lot of fresh air into the engine bay.
__________________
Stuff...
SNK VNM is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2007, 09:01 AM   #5
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (37)
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ohio City, OH
Posts: 8,342

I wonder if my C&L inlet pipe could be fit to the stock airbox? It would at least be nice and smooth inside. When I was runing the pro-m inside the stock air box, I was even using the stock paper air filter. A nice K&N in there might have helped too. I know the CAI's look nicer but really wonder how much you gain on a mild 5.0. I noticed on Anderson Ford's website that in the section where they sell the "power-pipes" it says something like " Provides more air flow needed for high winding 302's or larger stroker 351/408's etc. So I thought maybe the extra airflow isn't an issue with a non-blown, 6000 rpm max street 5.0.
__________________
Just an old carpenter with a 94 Cobra and a Son with a nasty 85GT! I'm Show and he's Go!!
XSPOWER is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2007, 10:05 AM   #6
PMS Tuning Forum Moderator
 
Redsnk95's Avatar

Trader Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,566

My filter is in the engine compartment, I just have a 90 degree rubber elbow off the throttle body to a 6" long 4" diameter piper to the mass air meter to the filter. I run a fox body throttle body but you get the idea, no problems here.
__________________
Troy
1995 Mustang Cobra
347ci 10.52 @ 127.74 NA-Pump Gas (gone)
New Project in the works.
2009 F150 Lariat *tow truck*

http://www.stangtuning.com
Redsnk95 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2007, 10:08 AM   #7
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Warren County, NJ
Posts: 5,698
Blog Entries: 1

you won't get any sotp performance from a cai setup, if you do you are more than likely dreaming it. a drop in k&n will do the same, you might get an added .5 hp from putting it in the fenderwell.

any cold air intake setups are crap for our cars, as we already do have somewhat of a cold air setup and we don't have that metal tube that attracts heat which negates anything that the "cold air" would provide. you want a true intake that will increase hp, get a supercharger or turbo, anything else save your money and get something else that will give you true sotp performance.

IMO getting a cold air intake is like adding race fuel and it adding sotp feel, when infact it would take it away on a car that isn't producing the air and spark required to burn it.
__________________
Making people go "hmmmm" one post at a time.
sc302 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2007, 12:32 PM   #8
Registered User
 
TrickVert's Avatar

Trader Feedback: (22)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Woodland Park, CO
Posts: 2,239

I don't see any way that heat soak of a metal tube is a concern for raising the intake charge temp. At the speed the air is passing through that tube, it will pick up no more heat than if it was made of rubber or plastic.

I've never seen anyone post back-to-back N/A dyno results of with/without the stock "ripply-tube" intact tract. One would have to assume, though, if it was very detrimental, the Cobra R would not have used it. For that limited run, if a smooth tube was a significant improvement, I'm sure SVT would have utilized it. Instead, the intake tubing and airbox in the '95 Cobra R is the same as what was used on the later 'Stangs. (And what will most likely end up in mine when I upgrade my MAF.)

Bottom line, a "CAI" that puts the filter in the engine bay will increase air intake temp, and can degrade performance. A "true" CAI that puts the filter in the fender could affect the MAF performance if it has a 90* bend right before it, but the jury's out on that. The stock airbox setup is already a CAI, and I've never seen any proof that changing it out helps in a N/A application.

My $.02, and probably worth less than that.

Andy
__________________
'95 GT Vert - Rio Red - Grey Leather - Black Top
My 'Vert Mods & Pics

Last edited by TrickVert; 06-18-2007 at 07:51 AM.
TrickVert is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2007, 02:47 PM   #9
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (37)
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ohio City, OH
Posts: 8,342

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redsnk95 View Post
My filter is in the engine compartment, I just have a 90 degree rubber elbow off the throttle body to a 6" long 4" diameter piper to the mass air meter to the filter. I run a fox body throttle body but you get the idea, no problems here.
Yeh, But if the air filter is in the engine compartment, you can't make any power! HaHa! I was just kiddin! If I could run 10's like you with it in the engine compartment, that would suit me just fine!
__________________
Just an old carpenter with a 94 Cobra and a Son with a nasty 85GT! I'm Show and he's Go!!
XSPOWER is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-02-2007, 02:15 AM   #10
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Richmond, IN
Posts: 292

Quote:
Originally Posted by XSPOWER View Post
I wonder if my C&L inlet pipe could be fit to the stock airbox? It would at least be nice and smooth inside.

I want to know the answer to this exact question. I agree that CAIs in general suck for our cars. They especially suck for me, because due to some SCCA rules, my MAF has to stay in the stock position. I dont like open-element CAI's, as they pull in hot underhood air. I am also not a fan of fenderwell mount CAI's. Dealt with them before, surging idle, inaccurate MAF readings, etc.

I simply want to get rid of the convoluted rubber inlet pipe and retain the stock air box. I agree about the heat issue. From all the testing I have done, the air isnt really in the intake long enough to have a heat transfer-even though the pipe is metal. I think that a smooth post-maf inlet would make a small difference in fuel mileage and perhaps a small increase in power without any ill effects that other CAIs can cause..

FWIW, ford did have issues with the 95 cobra R and its rubber inlet tube. Under extended hard driving, the rubber became so pliable, that the WOT suction from the engine at times collapsed the tube on itself- effectively blocking nearly all of the air flow to the engine.

Why didnt SVT remedy that? well for starters the rubber collapsing deal was probably the exception and not the norm and the HP gains probably didnt outweigh production and engineering issues,- that rubber tube is one kinked mess, especially on a limited production car.

Does anyone know if the true flow CAI will mate to the stock airbox?
__________________
Admin
www.drynitrous.com
Supernatural is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-02-2007, 10:24 AM   #11
Registered User
 
LGSchmidtJr's Avatar

Trader Feedback: (0)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickVert View Post

I've never seen anyone post back-to-back N/A dyno results of with/without the stock "ripply-tube" intact tract. One would have to assume, though, if it was very detrimental, the Cobra R would not have used it. For that limited run, if a smooth tube was a significant improvement, I'm sure SVT would have utilized it. Instead, the intake tubing and airbox in the '95 Cobra R is the same as what was used on the later 'Stangs. (And what will most likely end up in mine when I upgrade my MAF.)

Bottom line, a "CAI" that puts the filter in the engine bay will increase air intake temp, and can degrade performance. A "true" CAI that puts the filter in the fender could affect the MAF performance if it has a 90* bend right before it, but the jury's out on that. The stock airbox setup is already a CAI, and I've never seen any proof that changing it out helps in a N/A application.

My $.02, and probably worth less than that.

Andy
Andy
I believe the 95R used a smooth inlet tube from the MAF to the TB and a 96-98 GT air box assy which houses a larger filter than the 94-95 cars.

Laurence
__________________
95 Cobra(Crystal White)
00 Lightning(Oxford White)
LGSchmidtJr is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-02-2007, 10:48 AM   #12
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Richmond, IN
Posts: 292

Quote:
Originally Posted by LGSchmidtJr View Post
Andy
I believe the 95R used a smooth inlet tube from the MAF to the TB and a 96-98 GT air box assy which houses a larger filter than the 94-95 cars.

Laurence

I think you are correct.

__________________
Admin
www.drynitrous.com
Supernatural is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-02-2007, 06:29 PM   #13
Registered User
 
TrickVert's Avatar

Trader Feedback: (22)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Woodland Park, CO
Posts: 2,239

Very interesting. I'm considering moving to the 96-98 airbox and 01+ MAF later. Might have to hunt up one of those tubes, as well.

Andy
__________________
'95 GT Vert - Rio Red - Grey Leather - Black Top
My 'Vert Mods & Pics
TrickVert is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-02-2007, 10:19 PM   #14
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Richmond, IN
Posts: 292

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickVert View Post
Very interesting. I'm considering moving to the 96-98 airbox and 01+ MAF later. Might have to hunt up one of those tubes, as well.

Andy
Is this a pretty straight forward ordeal? I know about the MAF thing, but does the 96+ box fit in the space OK? I assume so, since it is the same body and all...
__________________
Admin
www.drynitrous.com
Supernatural is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-02-2007, 11:16 PM   #15
Registered User
 
TrickVert's Avatar

Trader Feedback: (22)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Woodland Park, CO
Posts: 2,239

I think you mean you know the MAF will require a tune. As for the airbox, given it was used on the 95 Cobra R, I'm making the same assumption you are. Guess I'll find out.

Andy
__________________
'95 GT Vert - Rio Red - Grey Leather - Black Top
My 'Vert Mods & Pics
TrickVert is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2007, 12:13 AM   #16
Registered User
 
toyman's Avatar

Trader Feedback: (8)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: BC
Posts: 2,314

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernatural View Post
I want to know the answer to this exact question. I agree that CAIs in general suck for our cars. They especially suck for me, because due to some SCCA rules, my MAF has to stay in the stock position. I dont like open-element CAI's, as they pull in hot underhood air. I am also not a fan of fenderwell mount CAI's. Dealt with them before, surging idle, inaccurate MAF readings, etc.

I simply want to get rid of the convoluted rubber inlet pipe and retain the stock air box. I agree about the heat issue. From all the testing I have done, the air isnt really in the intake long enough to have a heat transfer-even though the pipe is metal. I think that a smooth post-maf inlet would make a small difference in fuel mileage and perhaps a small increase in power without any ill effects that other CAIs can cause..

FWIW, ford did have issues with the 95 cobra R and its rubber inlet tube. Under extended hard driving, the rubber became so pliable, that the WOT suction from the engine at times collapsed the tube on itself- effectively blocking nearly all of the air flow to the engine.

Why didnt SVT remedy that? well for starters the rubber collapsing deal was probably the exception and not the norm and the HP gains probably didnt outweigh production and engineering issues,- that rubber tube is one kinked mess, especially on a limited production car.

Does anyone know if the true flow CAI will mate to the stock airbox?

If the tubing was collapsing that is indicative of an air flow problem. I've read somewhere that there should never be vacuum (negative pressure) anywhere in the system before the TB. So, unless you can confirm a vacuum in the pipe there is no advantage to changing it as there is no air flow restriction and the engine is drawing as much as it can use. Same principle applies to the filter. Unless it's restricting air flow to the point of a vacuum being created downstream the engine is drawing all the air it needs.
toyman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2007, 11:09 AM   #17
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Woodbine, Maryland
Posts: 345

i had a drop in filter in my stock air box, i put a cnl set up in and even after a couple runs the car was hot but it still put down more power then the stock air box set up. it wasnt no 20 or 30 rwhp gain but it was like 9 or 10 if i remember right.
__________________
94 GT
JPC racingbuilt and tuned
built 331, vortec V3
560/520
1Delsol2try is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2007, 11:16 AM   #18
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Richmond, IN
Posts: 292

Quote:
Originally Posted by toyman View Post
If the tubing was collapsing that is indicative of an air flow problem. I've read somewhere that there should never be vacuum (negative pressure) anywhere in the system before the TB. So, unless you can confirm a vacuum in the pipe there is no advantage to changing it as there is no air flow restriction and the engine is drawing as much as it can use. Same principle applies to the filter. Unless it's restricting air flow to the point of a vacuum being created downstream the engine is drawing all the air it needs.
The issue on the 95 cobra R was that the intake tube (Rubber) got soft and pliable with extremely high underhood temperatures, thus collapsing on itself when the engine was at WOT trying to pull a bunch of air through it.


I see what you are saying in principal, but there are more factors at work here than just vacuum. If that were the only principle in operation here, then there would be nothing to gain by installing any CAI, aftermarket air filter, larger MAF, or removing the intake silencer.

We all know that stock intake tracts (pre TB) are not the most free-flowing things in the world. These obstacles impede air flow- making the engine work harder to get the air that it needs. Anything you can do to add more volume to this area, or reduce the amount of curves and other restrictions is going to free up a very small amount of HP and also increase fuel millage. Its the same concept in essence as installing under drive pulleys. It doesnt make power, instead it makes it easier for the engine to get what it needs.
__________________
Admin
www.drynitrous.com

Last edited by Supernatural; 10-03-2007 at 03:06 PM.
Supernatural is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2007, 01:15 PM   #19
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (37)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 2,130

I'm quite certain the factory intake tube is not 'ripply' inside.
Modular is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2007, 03:02 PM   #20
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Richmond, IN
Posts: 292

Quote:
Originally Posted by Modular View Post
I'm quite certain the factory intake tube is not 'ripply' inside.


Im not really sure what you mean. I see a ton of convolutions, bellows and so on in that pipe. It isnt smooth inside.


BTW, does ANYONE know if the C&L tube will work with the stock air box? I have seen one pic of it, but I cant get in touch with the guys to see if he had to do any modifications.
__________________
Admin
www.drynitrous.com

Last edited by Supernatural; 10-03-2007 at 03:07 PM.
Supernatural is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2007, 03:20 PM   #21
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Richmond, IN
Posts: 292

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickVert View Post
I think you mean you know the MAF will require a tune. As for the airbox, given it was used on the 95 Cobra R, I'm making the same assumption you are. Guess I'll find out.

Andy

yeah, I know they require a tune and an adapter plug. I run the tweecer on mine , and have the adapter plug already but I guess I didnt even consider installing the later model air box so the thing will fit.

I will keep my eyes open for one of these boxes to see if it will mate up to the inlet tube and so on. That may be why the 95R had a different tube- just to get the air box and stuff to work? Either way, procuring a 95R specific pipe is going to be a real headache.
__________________
Admin
www.drynitrous.com
Supernatural is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2007, 04:40 PM   #22
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (37)
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ohio City, OH
Posts: 8,342

I have a C&L inlet pipe on my 94 and I don't believe the inlet pipe will work with the airbox. The factory rubber elbow makea a tighter turn than the C&L pipe so the alum pipe is too far forward to connect to the box. I took my C&L pipe and went to the hardware and got a sanding flap wheel that you put in a drill and went inside the pipe from each end until it was sanded smooth inside & then I bought one of those mothers buff balls that are like 6" in diameter and I covered the inside of the pipe with mothers polish, thenput the ball on the end of a drill with a 6" extension and kept running the ball all the way from one end to the other for a few minutes and "WOW" it now looks likw chrome inside. Now the air should slip around those corners pretty easy. I have a pro-M 75mm bullet connected to the pipe with a filter mounted right on the meter. I am ging to make a heat shroud for the filter sometime. The C&L pipe is a really nice piece.
__________________
Just an old carpenter with a 94 Cobra and a Son with a nasty 85GT! I'm Show and he's Go!!
XSPOWER is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2007, 04:47 PM   #23
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (37)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 2,130

Supernatural - I'm talking about obstructions where the air actually flows, which is inside the pipe.

The inside tubing does not look like the outside tubing
Modular is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2007, 04:50 PM   #24
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hayden, AL
Posts: 299

I noticed a difference in power when I installed a CAI but I think it was from me cleaning the maf real good

I don't think it really helps to much if any on a near stock engine. With the C&L intake tube I think I would look at just installing a heat shield of some sort. The stock 96-04 airbox should fit pretty easily and the filters from 94-95's will fit in them perfectly. I'm just not sure if it will fit with the C&L tube.
__________________
Rio Red 95 svt Cobra, mods include: mac shorties, O/R Xpipe, Flowmasters, 3.73's, fresh rebuilt trac loc, CAI, tweecer tuned, fresh short block, some minor head porting.
rj95snake is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2007, 05:58 PM   #25
Registered User
 
toyman's Avatar

Trader Feedback: (8)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: BC
Posts: 2,314

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernatural View Post
I see what you are saying in principal, but there are more factors at work here than just vacuum. If that were the only principle in operation here, then there would be nothing to gain by installing any CAI, aftermarket air filter, larger MAF, or removing the intake silencer.
I think that is true with respect to a stock engine. However when there is a H/C/I change I can see where the intake air becomes the choke point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernatural View Post
We all know that stock intake tracts (pre TB) are not the most free-flowing things in the world. These obstacles impede air flow- making the engine work harder to get the air that it needs. Anything you can do to add more volume to this area, or reduce the amount of curves and other restrictions is going to free up a very small amount of HP and also increase fuel millage. Its the same concept in essence as installing under drive pulleys. It doesnt make power, instead it makes it easier for the engine to get what it needs.
Almost the same but not quite. The U/D pulleys are are making it easier for the engine to the extent that the accessories are now rotating at a slower pace. Whereas, the air intake if not being restricted hasn't any impact on the engines performance.

I'll try to find the reference to the air intake question.
toyman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2007, 06:18 PM   #26
Registered User
 
toyman's Avatar

Trader Feedback: (8)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: BC
Posts: 2,314

The reference is from Kenne Bell's site. The qoute is,"How can I tell if my filter assembly, meter, throttle body inlet hoses or manifolds are restrictive and losing HP? Use the time-proven Kenne Bell approach. Flow the individual pieces on a flow bench. If you don't have access to a bench, install a tap behind each component in the inlet track, make a dyno pull or a WOT run on the street in low or second gear and read the vacuum gauge. If it's "0" there are no losses and, therefore, upgrading components will not help. However, if there is a 4" Hg reading - that's 2 psi of lost atmospheric boost and 20HP (1 psi=10HP). Works on carbureted engines also. Now you know how to analyze inlet systems. You'd be amazed at how many don't."
toyman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2007, 07:42 PM   #27
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 884

whats the benifit to the 96 airbox anyone have pics?
__________________
1994 Mustang GT

SN95Forums.com - Check us out!
Matt5.0 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2007, 09:32 PM   #28
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Richmond, IN
Posts: 292

Modular: I know the "bracing" molded into the tube is not on the inside. I was talking about the bellows and kinks.

Toyman:
Quote:
"Vacuum” is a relative term. In it's basic definition, it’s the absence of pressure - In this case, atmospheric pressure. The ideal method to test for intake restriction would be to check pressure differential with a manometer across various points in the system. Lacking that, a very high resolution vacuum gauge could be used to test for relative vacuum (decrease from atmospheric pressure) at various points in the intake tract. Any reading will be very minimal, which is why a manometer would provide a better indication.

There is no doubt that ANY type of filter element will create pressure differential. Oil bath filters create some PD. Even centrifugal "filters" used in some processes create a PD by causing the air to rapidly change direction. An elbow or bend in a duct, even though it might be the same size, and as smooth as possible, will create PD. Moreover, the ductwork itself, even at a fixed, constant size and with a mirror-smooth wall will create a PD along a sufficient length due to circumferential or perimeter surface friction and the induced laminar flow. At a shorter length, the restriction is less significant, but is still a restriction nonetheless. This involves fluid dynamic principals.

That said, there are practical limits and constraints in all applications, and a minimal PD has to be acceptable. For example:

*Even though a section of duct will create pressure drop, the loss over a relatively short length, like the three-foot long intake tract, is so minuscule it’s really not worth considering.

* Running without an air filter is unacceptable in the long term, so that is a necessary restriction. The design of the filter will affect just how much PD will be created. Using the largest possible element surface area is usually the best for reducing PD.

* Increasing the diameter of the duct in bends will eliminate the PD created by them (That's one of the reasons the factory uses plenum boxes in several areas of the intake tract on GM cars. The “problem” is created by the aftermarket "rocket scientists" who frequently don't have a thorough enough grasp of the science to know what they're looking at, and only see a restriction. That's not to say that the factory systems are perfect, but neither are the aftermarket systems.)

* Although flexible, bendable, or “accordion” tubing is frequently used to make connections, the effective size of such fittings should be calculated at something less than the smallest I.D., since those sections of duct will impart even more perimeter surface friction.

* The number of bends should also be considered, since every change of direction creates some PD in a system.

The process is probably not best defined as “adding power” as much as “reducing factory imposed restriction” created by a practical compromise between effectiveness, practicality of the installation, and cost.
I am not necessarily debating the usefulness of my intuition that the car may benefit from replacing the factory rubber bellows with a solid piece. We can talk all day about principles and theory, but I am just going to go and test it. If it doesnt work at all, I will be out about 100$ and that is a risk I am willing to take.

GM guys replace the factory rubber bellows all the time, and have dyno results to back up a gain, as well as mustang guys switching out to a K&N filter or a CAI. I understand everything is different, but to take an engineering blurb from a supercharger company and apply that one principle to anything in the intake system is not quite accurate. Principles of fluid dynamics are also in effect here, and aside from that a N/A engine behaves a bit differently than a forced induction engine.

I am not looking to pick up 50 HP here. I understand any gains are going to be small, but I do not want to leave anything on the table, and aftermarket CAI's are allowed in my racing class.
__________________
Admin
www.drynitrous.com

Last edited by Supernatural; 10-03-2007 at 10:07 PM.
Supernatural is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2007, 09:37 PM   #29
Registered User

Trader Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Richmond, IN
Posts: 292

Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by XSPOWER View Post
I have a C&L inlet pipe on my 94 and I don't believe the inlet pipe will work with the airbox.

Thank you very much, thats exactly what I needed to know.
__________________
Admin
www.drynitrous.com
Supernatural is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:55 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
© 2010-2011 Corral.net

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.