Timing Gasket change questions, few questions

[from6to8]

Is it necessary to get the car to TDC or at the number one piston or whatever it is? I know that I have to make sure the dots line up on both gears. I guess what I want to know also is because even if the car isn't at tdc, won't the dots still be pointed the same direction when I take off the timing cover? Or better yet, won't the dots always match no matter in what position they are in or what. Educate me lol.

Change the oil after?

[from6to8]

bump

[Bubba 95SN]

Purchase a Haynes or Chilton manual. Will have pictures and information for projects to come.

[95cobraguy]

If all you're doing is changing the timing cover gasket than you dont need to touch the distributor, gears or anything else. And yes, change the oil after as some coolant will fall into the oil pan once you remove the cover.

[from6to8]

Originally Posted by 95cobraguy

If all you're doing is changing the timing cover gasket than you dont need to touch the distributor, gears or anything else. And yes, change the oil after as some coolant will fall into the oil pan once you remove the cover.

to the other guy, I have a Haynes and they don't mention alot of things or break things down or sometimes they don't explain things thoroughly so that's why i come here to ask questions I may have.

I can go ahead and drain the oil but don't fill back up ofcourse till everything is put back together? The coolant def has to be drained as well right? I aint ashamed to ask anything that I might say " Right " too. I will ask lol. I ask if the oil needs to be drained first so when you I take the cover off, I guess its best to place rags in the pan so no junk won't get in there. Draining the oil would i guess not soak the rags if rags are stuffed in there i guess???

Also too, I am putting on a new chain. Are you talking about timing gears? I'd assume so so in that case I need to get to tdc?

[Blown86GT]

Originally Posted by from6to8

to the other guy, I have a Haynes and they don't mention alot of things or break things down or sometimes they don't explain things thoroughly so that's why i come here to ask questions I may have.

I can go ahead and drain the oil but don't fill back up ofcourse till everything is put back together? The coolant def has to be drained as well right? I aint ashamed to ask anything that I might say " Right " too. I will ask lol. I ask if the oil needs to be drained first so when you I take the cover off, I guess its best to place rags in the pan so no junk won't get in there. Draining the oil would i guess not soak the rags if rags are stuffed in there i guess???

Also too, I am putting on a new chain. Are you talking about timing gears? I'd assume so so in that case I need to get to tdc?

So you are changing the timing chain as well? You didn't state that in your original post.

Once you take the timing cover off, match the dots on the cam gear to the crank gear before removal of the old chain. The crank gear should be at the 12 oclock and the cam gear at the 6 oclock.

The only tough part to this job is removing the balancer. Make sure you get a good balancer removal tool...and install tool as well (should be able to loan both out at a decent auto parts store.) You will see how simple it really is once you tear it down. JUST MAKE SURE THE DOTS ARE MATCHED IN THE SAME POSITION DURING CHAIN INSTALL. And definately change the oil...

[from6to8]

Originally Posted by Blown86GT

So you are changing the timing chain as well? You didn't state that in your original post.

Once you take the timing cover off, match the dots on the cam gear to the crank gear before removal of the old chain. The crank gear should be at the 12 oclock and the cam gear at the 6 oclock.

The only tough part to this job is removing the balancer. Make sure you get a good balancer removal tool...and install tool as well (should be able to loan both out at a decent auto parts store.) You will see how simple it really is once you tear it down. JUST MAKE SURE THE DOTS ARE MATCHED IN THE SAME POSITION DURING CHAIN INSTALL. And definately change the oil...

sorry yeah i could have more clearly stated it though i mentioned the gears. I got the whole loaner kit from advance. Balancer remover it should be same thing to put it back on with right? So if I am understanding this right, the dots on the gears will be at the same position rather its tdc or not is that right? If not, at tdc, then the dots on the gear will be both lined up as if you can draw a straight line from one to the next? I know I saw a pic online somewhere where I believe both were at the 12 o'closck position

upon edit, I guess darn at the 12 and 6 o clock is as in the pic i saw lol . But I guess the fact of rather at tdc or not rather its gona be at that position is the answer or is tdc the easiest less confusing way? Cause if not at tdc then I go ahead when putting back on and put the crank at 12 and cam at 6, is that still the correct way?

Just read this in the chilton manual. It says remove the oil pan to front cover attaching bolts. Use a think bladed knife to cut the oil pan gasket flush with the cylinder block face prior to separating the cover from the cylinder block. Is that solely for matching up the new oil pan to cover gasket with the one you would have just cut? Wouldnt or shouldnt it have been cut with last install? Just wondering why they would want you to cut it if you are going to discard the old one anyway

[Blown86GT]

Originally Posted by from6to8

sorry yeah i could have more clearly stated it though i mentioned the gears. I got the whole loaner kit from advance. Balancer remover it should be same thing to put it back on with right? So if I am understanding this right, the dots on the gears will be at the same position rather its tdc or not is that right? If not, at tdc, then the dots on the gear will be both lined up as if you can draw a straight line from one to the next? I know I saw a pic online somewhere where I believe both were at the 12 o'closck position

upon edit, I guess darn at the 12 and 6 o clock is as in the pic i saw lol . But I guess the fact of rather at tdc or not rather its gona be at that position is the answer or is tdc the easiest less confusing way? Cause if not at tdc then I go ahead when putting back on and put the crank at 12 and cam at 6, is that still the correct way?

Actually, the tools to install and remove a balancer are two different types. I have two seperate cases for my balancer removal and installer tools. However, Advanced might have lumped them together. An example of puller and installer:

http://toolmonger.com/2006/07/29/har...ancer-pullers/

http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1...installer.html

And the 6 oclock cam gear/ 12 oclock crank gear is TDC...or close enough for your purposes. Finding true TDC for a timing chain swap is uneccessary and a bit more involved. You'd only be concerned for true TDC degreeing a cam...

I'd recommend rotating both gears to the 6/12 oclock position prior to disassembly of the OEAM chain to aviod any confusion during install. I've done XXX number of cam installs, engine rebuilds, and timing chain swaps and do this method every time to ensure crank and cam gear timing is correct. If not, you will be looking at the very least bent valves....

[from6to8]

Originally Posted by Blown86GT

Actually, the tools to install and remove a balancer are two different types. I have two seperate cases for my balancer removal and installer tools. However, Advanced might have lumped them together. An example of puller and installer:

Harmonic Balancer Pullers | Toolmonger

CalVan CAL388 Tools Harmonic Balancer Installer | Pullers, Holders, Belt Tools

And the 6 oclock cam gear/ 12 oclock crank gear is TDC...or close enough for your purposes. Finding true TDC for a timing chain swap is uneccessary and a bit more involved. You'd only be concerned for true TDC degreeing a cam...

I'd recommend rotating both gears to the 6/12 oclock position prior to disassembly of the OEAM chain to aviod any confusion during install. I've done XXX number of cam installs, engine rebuilds, and timing chain swaps and do this method every time to ensure crank and cam gear timing is correct. If not, you will be looking at the very least bent valves....

Just read this in the chilton manual. It says remove the oil pan to front cover attaching bolts. Use a think bladed knife to cut the oil pan gasket flush with the cylinder block face prior to separating the cover from the cylinder block. Is that solely for matching up the new oil pan to cover gasket with the one you would have just cut? Wouldnt or shouldnt it have been cut with last install? Just wondering why they would want you to cut it if you are going to discard the old one anyway

[from6to8]

Originally Posted by Blown86GT

Actually, the tools to install and remove a balancer are two different types. I have two seperate cases for my balancer removal and installer tools. However, Advanced might have lumped them together. An example of puller and installer:

Harmonic Balancer Pullers | Toolmonger

CalVan CAL388 Tools Harmonic Balancer Installer | Pullers, Holders, Belt Tools

And the 6 oclock cam gear/ 12 oclock crank gear is TDC...or close enough for your purposes. Finding true TDC for a timing chain swap is uneccessary and a bit more involved. You'd only be concerned for true TDC degreeing a cam...

I'd recommend rotating both gears to the 6/12 oclock position prior to disassembly of the OEAM chain to aviod any confusion during install. I've done XXX number of cam installs, engine rebuilds, and timing chain swaps and do this method every time to ensure crank and cam gear timing is correct. If not, you will be looking at the very least bent valves....

yes they are lumped together in the 33 piece kit from advance. So heck yeah then i will just line up the dots before taking the oem chain off. So just turning the chain till they line up at that position is the way to do it? Easy to turn?

upon edit, book says rotate crankshaft until timing marks are aligned. I have rotated the crankshaft before with ratchet on crank to get tdc but wont at this point the crankshaft pulley and bolt will be off so does the ratchet fit on the shaft to turn it?

[Blown86GT]

Originally Posted by from6to8

yes they are lumped together in the 33 piece kit from advance. So heck yeah then i will just line up the dots before taking the oem chain off. So just turning the chain till they line up at that position is the way to do it? Easy to turn?

upon edit, book says rotate crankshaft until timing marks are aligned. I have rotated the crankshaft before with ratchet on crank to get tdc but wont at this point the crankshaft pulley and bolt will be off so does the ratchet fit on the shaft to turn it?

Yes the bolt will be removed...I reinstall the bolt and rotate it with a ratchet. Trick is getting the bolt off without disturbing your alignment. I have an impact...

[from6to8]

Originally Posted by Blown86GT

Yes the bolt will be removed...I reinstall the bolt and rotate it with a ratchet. Trick is getting the bolt off without disturbing your alignment. I have an impact...

Will an impact ratchet wrench work?

still might mess with the alignment slightly

[Blown86GT]

Originally Posted by from6to8

Will an impact ratchet wrench work?

still might mess with the alignment slightly

As long as both gears are at the appropriate position, you will be ok. Use the ratchet to rotate and if you can loosen the bolt without disturbing the alignment, you should be ok. If you have to readjust because removing the bolt messed with the alignment, then do so...

[Pfirmin]

They tell you to cut the oil pan gasket because initially it extends to the timing cover. Once you remove the timing cover only, the gasket is generally torn. An exception would be the factory 1 piece rubber oil pan gasket. I have reused them without cutting but its a chore to say the least.
Rotating the engine dot to dot is best. You can always remove the bolt after the new timing set is installed. That way it doesn't matter if it rotates or not.

Sent using nothing

[from6to8]

Originally Posted by Pfirmin

They tell you to cut the oil pan gasket because initially it extends to the timing cover. Once you remove the timing cover only, the gasket is generally torn. An exception would be the factory 1 piece rubber oil pan gasket. I have reused them without cutting but its a chore to say the least.
Rotating the engine dot to dot is best. You can always remove the bolt after the new timing set is installed. That way it doesn't matter if it rotates or not.

Sent using nothing

that sounds like a winner, just remove the bolt once the new chain is on instead of even worrying about rather it would move or not once you have the dots lined up on the old one.

As far as what you said about the gasket, my thing is this. Only way i would see cutting them would be if you were going to use them to trace the new one. If it is going to break, why even cut it lol. I mean, when you pull the cover off, why would you have to worry about it breaking or not. Unless they say that so the piece won't fall into the pan or something

and when you put on the new gasket, there is no cutting with it right ?

Will the front seal come out pretty easy? I know i have seen a video where you can use a piece of 2x4 and lightly tap it back in. Tricks to getting it out?

[from6to8]

ok i think i understand now after seeing some images and such. The original tc gasket/oil pan gasket was an all in one piece. Ok when the guy did my motor back in 02 he put in a chain so in all cases I wouldnt even have to worry about that probably if thats the case and he used the cork gaskets?

Just covering all my bases lol. Is it much easier to maybe get a few tc bolts and cut off and use as a guide to get the cover on without even worrying about possibly the gasket moving? no need for any rtv on both sides of any gaskets right?