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Old 12-22-2010, 12:34 AM   #1
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95 GT cranks but no spark

ok yesterday i was driving, and all of a sudden the car dies, i keep trying to restart it but nothing happens, had to get it towed home wich was a mistake i should of just had it towed to the shop, but i replaced the ignition control module, that did nothing, replaced dizzy that did nothing i installed it correctly, checked my new coil, tried out my other computer, i am just geting no spark at all, i checked it from the coil, and from the #1 plug, and absolutely no spark, I am getting fuel for sure, but no spark, checked every single fuse and relay they are all good, I am left clueless i don't know if a bad ignition switch can be anything, or if somehow one of my grounds came loose, but i have tried everything in the book and no luck at all what should i do ??????????????? this is really getting me angry, because this is my daily driver and i need to get around place to place. edit: oh and the cap rotor plugs and wires and coil are only a month old, and also forgot to put i bypassed the msd box and that did nothing at all either.
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Last edited by Yankeesfan239; 12-22-2010 at 12:36 AM. Reason: adding more information
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:01 AM   #2
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I would check the ignition switch, pretty easy swap.
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Old 12-22-2010, 08:23 PM   #3
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Put the old coil back in and try it. If you have no spark at the coil wire it sounds like it crapped out. Had that happen to me once.
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Old 12-23-2010, 05:15 PM   #4
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Ok i have tried different coils, theres no spark at the coil or at the #1 plug, so now i am lost, but if the ignition switch is bad then it shouldnt crank? and i tried replacing the distributor, the tfi, the ecu, tried bypassing my <SD 6AL, i am stumped theres noting left
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Old 12-24-2010, 12:10 AM   #5
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The PIP in the distributor is what signals the coil to fire. If you are not getting spark that is where I would start. Do you know for sure the distributor you put in to test is working? The wiggle test might be in order too. While you have someone crank the engine for you wiggle the wiring where it goes through the distributor. They are notorious for causing problems. I have replaced the one in my MSD once already, and have a spare MSD in the garage for the next time.... If you are positive the dis is good you should be able to pull the coil connector and check it for voltage while cranking. For what it's worth.
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Old 12-24-2010, 12:13 AM   #6
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Knew I had this bookmarked somewhere. Hope it helps too.

http://allfordmustangs.com/forums/5-...checklist.html
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Old 12-24-2010, 05:36 AM   #7
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It sounds like the ignition module. The motor will still crank but won't start.
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Old 12-27-2010, 11:49 PM   #8
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ok yeah the pip in the new distributor is also brand new, and yeah i have the checklist but thanks, and ok so now what i should do is pull the connector connecting to the coil, and see how much voltage is getting to it, how many volts should it get, and psst-gt i already tried to replace the ignition control module, and no luck with it.
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Old 06-11-2014, 06:24 PM   #9
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did you find the problem? I'm going through the same thing, I'm going to try the ignition switch, hopefully thats it.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:36 PM   #10
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Pip is only uses as rpm signal in the transition from icm to ecm control

If you have no spark in start its NOT the pip

Its the stator and or icm

My bet is on the stator/pickup inside dist

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
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Old 06-12-2014, 04:29 PM   #11
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Stator/pick up coil/profile ignition pick up (pip) are all the same thing.

Part 5 -Ford Ignition Module Test. Fender Mounted Module (ICM).

Last edited by Davis3; 06-12-2014 at 04:35 PM. Reason: added link.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:34 PM   #12
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wrong
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:37 PM   #13
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signal

sensor
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post
wrong
Please enlighten me.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:39 PM   #15
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pickup/stator generates signal to ICM.

In crank ICM generates signal to coil on its own.

ICM then generates PIP SIGNAL that is sent to ECM, when PIP signal is above certain RPM in crank/start is attained that PIP info tells the ECM to fire the injectors, and generate a SPOUT signal to control spark VIA the ICM.


You can have spark in crank without ECM firing injectors.

Hence the WOT NO start or used in flooded starts.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:46 PM   #16
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You can have spark without PIP signal.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:47 PM   #17
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its known as a bypass ignition.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:53 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post
You can have spark without PIP signal.
Ok.
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post
pickup/stator generates signal to ICM.

In crank ICM generates signal to coil on its own.

ICM then generates PIP SIGNAL that is sent to ECM, when PIP signal is above certain RPM in crank/start is attained that PIP info tells the ECM to fire the injectors, and generate a SPOUT signal to control spark VIA the ICM.


You can have spark in crank without ECM firing injectors.

Hence the WOT NO start or used in flooded starts.
You are so wrong in so many ways...its not worth reponding
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:21 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MecGen View Post
You are so wrong in so many ways...its not worth reponding
you go tech giant......

it was WRONG for you to join.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
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You are so wrong in so many ways...its not worth reponding
Well, then correct him. If he is wrong that's alright and we all learn something. If not you just a barrel of ......................(insert your own word here).
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:40 AM   #22
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I need to verify the a/c charge in my with some gauges.......
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:41 AM   #23
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and if I'm wrong, i'll be the first to admit that.
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:11 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post
you go tech giant......

it was WRONG for you to join.
OhOh
Let me start first by apologizing, I came into your house and acted like a d-bag, which is really not my style. I took some of your post and acted (wrote) inappropriately. Someone give me a snickers bar.

srs
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:23 PM   #25
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is 'srs' slang for serious?

seriously?
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:13 PM   #26
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is 'srs' slang for serious?

seriously?
Yes, serious reply
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:26 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melo yelo View Post
Well, then correct him. If he is wrong that's alright and we all learn something. If not you just a barrel of ......................(insert your own word here).
OK I deserved that...maybe I should explain my position

Quote:
Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post
pickup/stator generates signal to ICM.
I agree

Quote:
In crank ICM generates signal to coil on its own.
using the pip, the ICM does not generate a pip

Quote:
ICM then generates PIP SIGNAL that is sent to ECM,
using the pip, the ICM does not generate a pip, the pip is solely generated by the hall effect sensor then thru the icm

Quote:
when PIP signal is above certain RPM in crank/start is attained that PIP info tells the ECM to fire the injectors,
Actually the logic inside the pcm uses the pip and crank signal to start pulsing injectors at any rpm, at above a pre determined rpm (I think its 500 rpm) the ecm starts to calculate spark angle - timing - but injector are already firing, but this is admittedly splitting hairs on my part.

Quote:
and generate a SPOUT signal to control spark VIA the ICM.
just to clarify, the icm does not generate a spout, the spout is an output from the ecm to the icm, the spout is a computer controlled strategy the icm just fires the coil when signaled, the is no logic inside a icm.

Quote:
You can have spark in crank without ECM firing injectors.
Agreed

Quote:
Hence the WOT NO start or used in flooded starts.
WOT fuel cutout was used in the first couple years of injection, Ford as most manufactures altered this strategy for a more controlled unflooding , I am not sure when. This is a function of the ecm logic that has nothing to do with the icm or pip

Quote:
You can have spark without PIP signal.
No impossible

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Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post
its known as a bypass ignition.
The ignition bypass, as I know it, is a GM function

My response is only meant as way of telling my beliefs, and in no way do I want to come off as a "know it all" Its hard to show a demeanor when posting.

Regards
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:37 PM   #28
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and ECM generates spout.

you inadvert. cut the quote.

the PIP comes from the ICM, that was generated at the stator.

Ford calls the PIP from ICM to the ECM.

GM bypass is exactly the same as this type with ford, just different terms, ie pip and spout.

I should have been more clear..

the PIP from the ICM to the ECM is NOT necessary as is SPOUT, to generate spark.

You can create spark, in crank without the ECM.

I do not have the exact rpm when spout is generated.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:57 PM   #29
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You are correct, ford does call it the PIP from the stator to the ICM.

I just rechecked my literature, the PIP from the hall is fed to both the ICM and ECM.

I just never called it the PIP from stator to ICM.

thanx for the clarification.
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Old 06-14-2014, 01:30 AM   #30
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Cool

Like they say, a picture is worth a 1000 words.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ignition system 01.jpg (66.9 KB, 21 views)
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Old 08-02-2014, 11:27 PM   #31
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did you find the problem? I'm going through the same thing, I'm going to try the ignition switch, hopefully thats it.
I'm experiencing the same thing as well. Did u pinpoint the problem?
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Old 08-02-2014, 11:57 PM   #32
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did you find the problem? I'm going through the same thing, I'm going to try the ignition switch, hopefully thats it.
I'm experiencing the same thing as well. Did u pinpoint the problem?
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Old 08-03-2014, 12:15 AM   #33
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Not to derail but I've seriously pondered exactly HOW the computer controls spark timing, what the tfi does, and what my msd box does.. Any full breaddowns out there of how the sytem actually works and controls timing as opposed to a mechanical or vac advance dizzy??
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Old 08-03-2014, 02:28 AM   #34
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Not to derail but I've seriously pondered exactly HOW the computer controls spark timing, what the tfi does, and what my msd box does.. Any full breaddowns out there of how the sytem actually works and controls timing as opposed to a mechanical or vac advance dizzy??
Timing is a programmed function. The ECU uses a timing map to determine the amount of timing at a specific rpm and load. The TFI or ICM controls the ignition system and the MSD box enhances the spark.
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Old 08-03-2014, 03:03 AM   #35
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Timing is a programmed function. The ECU uses a timing map to determine the amount of timing at a specific rpm and load. The TFI or ICM controls the ignition system and the MSD box enhances the spark.
But HOW does the TFI change the timing from 10 degrees to 30 degrees when told to do so from the ecu?
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