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Old 06-14-2007, 11:10 AM   #1
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Opinions on HV Oil Pump and Stock vs. Not-Stock Pickup

I'm debating on whether I should get an aftermarket pickup to compliment my Melling HV oil pump. In terms of the oil system, I'm running that pump along with a windage tray so I imagine there will be plenty of oil in the pan (5 qt.). Do I really need an aftermarket pickup to go with it or will the stock unit do just fine? It's going in a 331 stroker engine. Thanks for the feedback.
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Old 06-14-2007, 11:23 AM   #2
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are the bearing clearances set up for a HV pump, any work to the block for oil drainback?

I made the mistake of adding a hv pump in my build. Oem clearances no drainback work and stock pan. Needless to say when you got on it the pressure would plunge. Oil must have been in the top, not draining back fast enough. When he engine was out this past winter i replaced the HV with a stock volume Melling.

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Old 06-14-2007, 11:25 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FordofSin View Post
I'm debating on whether I should get an aftermarket pickup to compliment my Melling HV oil pump. In terms of the oil system, I'm running that pump along with a windage tray so I imagine there will be plenty of oil in the pan (5 qt.). Do I really need an aftermarket pickup to go with it or will the stock unit do just fine? It's going in a 331 stroker engine. Thanks for the feedback.
If you have an aftermarket pan you should get the pickup they specify i.e. I have a Milodon on a 351W and I bought the pick-up for that pan. You should check the clearance of the pickup to the pan if it's all stock. I have a Melling HV and do not recall the differences in physical size...I am sure they almost identical...of course any difference could change where the pickup sits in the pan.

Lastly, buy some cheap insurance and get a new oil pump drive if you have not already...BTW the pick up are usuallu under $50
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Old 06-14-2007, 02:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmmustang89 View Post
are the bearing clearances set up for a HV pump, any work to the block for oil drainback?

I made the mistake of adding a hv pump in my build. Oem clearances no drainback work and stock pan. Needless to say when you got on it the pressure would plunge. Oil must have been in the top, not draining back fast enough. When he engine was out this past winter i replaced the HV with a stock volume Melling.

Live and learn i giess.
I realized that I would need to have enough clearance underneath the pickup in the pan but I didn't realize that OEM clearances on the rod and mains made a difference. I shall keep that in mind. Anyone else have this problem? I do have a 7 qt. Moroso oil pan that I could use instead.
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Old 06-14-2007, 04:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FordofSin View Post
I realized that I would need to have enough clearance underneath the pickup in the pan but I didn't realize that OEM clearances on the rod and mains made a difference. I shall keep that in mind. Anyone else have this problem? I do have a 7 qt. Moroso oil pan that I could use instead.
I'm not an expert on the oiling subject just letting you know what happened to me. I did find also that the pickup was a little close to the bottom of the pan aswell . I have yet to take it for a trip to see if the pressure drop is gone. I'm hoping that it was 1 of the 2 problems.

Some say just a little extra clearance on the journals and thats all, others say you need work done to the block to improve drainback, some say a hv in a stock oem clearance block is no problem.

I read a post by one of the knowlegable guys and they said hv pumps are for all out race motors with loose clearances and block work.

I tried 6 qts in a stock pan and still did the same thing.
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Old 06-14-2007, 04:55 PM   #6
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Well let me know if the switch to a stock volume from a HV oil pump fixes the problem. I've got a windage tray so I don't see the drainage being an issue but I think I'll go to a stock pump to avoid the chance. I've got tight 0.001 clearances on all my rod caps and all the mains are between 0.001 and 0.0015 so the HV oil pump in a relatively stock motor might not be what I should use.
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Old 06-14-2007, 04:57 PM   #7
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But wait . . .

You also mentioned that the oil was getting caught up top with the HV pump. If I assume the same thing would happen, could it be safe to assume that a 7 qt. oil pan would solve this problem by having more oil avaliable in the bottom end?
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Old 06-14-2007, 05:12 PM   #8
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Depends on how long you intended to run the engine at any RPM.

Proper way to address the situation is to run race clearance on the rods and mains. Prefurably you spec'd a crank with a Chevy rod journal, iether 2.100 or 2.200 (small or big block chevy rod journal). Journal width doesn't matter so much, you can get either ford or chevy as quality rods are available in either diameter in either width.

Prefurably the assembly has at least .001" x diamater of bearing. Big block mains, like to actually see about .0035" with a .0025" rod bearing clearance, with side clearance on the rods at about .0015" to .002"


With those sorts of bearing clearances, and running a 3/4 oil grove main bearing. The oiling issues of the crank/rod of the 351W and or the 460 are no problem at all.

Now as to reguards to the oil drain back, several precautions should be addressed there. First and foremost, have the drain back holes opened up, and flatten or "puddle" the area around the drain back holes to eliminate a slight rise and sharp edge that typically holds oil in the lifter galley. Simialar treatment should be done to the drainback holes in the heads, and ensure the head drainback is uninterupted through the deck and headgasket.

Most importantly is actually reducing the volume of flow from the mains up through the pushrods into the valve cover and lifter valley. Aftermarket blocks come already tapped for inline restrictor plugs. Stock blocks require some drilling and tapping.



If you look in the two upper galley (lifter galley) locations you can see how its stepped. THere is a tapping and thread for an inner plug, and then the larger outer plug. The inner plugs are installed drilled for an oil flow restriction, the lower passage on the left is the main bearing oil feed.
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Old 06-14-2007, 05:47 PM   #9
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I was hoping Kim would respond

So basically the stock oem pump is the way to go with a street/strip engine right?

2 quick questions

1) what are the 3/4 groove bearings? The clevite 77's i used i believe only had a groove on the top side.

2) a 393 sub 7000k rpm will there be an issue with stock ford rod journal size. All most all the stock length 351W rods i found are stock ford journal size. Can you explain why the chevy rod journals are preferred and the stock ford journal size is frowned upon.
Thanks
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Old 06-14-2007, 06:00 PM   #10
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Oil feed grove extends down around about 1/2 the lower shell.

Dont like full grove bearings, as it allows a circulation flow, instead of forcing the oil film to support the crank. Clevite doesn't offur a 3/4 grove bearing at this time, Fedral Mogul is the only supplier I know of.
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Old 06-14-2007, 06:06 PM   #11
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federal makes the 220 degree or AKA 3/4 groove bearings.


some blocks ( early) will require a small notch to allow the lock tang to sit in... the early block does not have this slot, so it has to be addded... simple job.
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