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Old 10-10-2006, 03:47 PM   #1
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HEADS FOR A 427 WINDSOR????

IM building a 427 windsor and would like some advice on which heads would work best for my application? ive been contemplating on engines for some time and have came back to the 427 windsor. AFR 225 cncd or TFS-R cncd or cleveland style heads??? what are the disadvantages of an inline valved head?? what are the advantages?? are thes heads capable of flow enough to produce up to 700hp N/A?? knowledgeable people please respond. thank you in advance mike

thoughts:
427ci windsor (world shortblock)
solid roller camshaft
super victor intake
1050 cfm carb
heads???????
going in a 91 notch already setup for racing
want to run in the low 9s N/A
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Old 10-10-2006, 03:56 PM   #2
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Please feel free to be different and run a CHI or AFD head. Either will accomodate you nicely and a canted cleveland style head is my far and away preferrence. On the other hand guys just like to open summit or jegs site and buy a set of bolt on inline heads, give it 6 months and there looking for more power
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Old 10-10-2006, 04:39 PM   #3
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I agree fully with sbfstroker, cleveland style heads are freaking cool. Blue Thunder's would be another option if you wanted to go Cleveland style.

A huge disadvantage to building a 9.5" deck height motor with Cleveland heads is the lack of piston choices you have. There are a few pistons that will work with it but they may not give the compression you want.
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Old 10-10-2006, 04:48 PM   #4
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CHI needs to make an EFI Spyder type intake for those heads! I called about 1 month ago and they do not yet but I suppose someone could make one.
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Old 10-10-2006, 04:51 PM   #5
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Are headers available for those heads?
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Old 10-10-2006, 05:07 PM   #6
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Mike
Sounds like you really want to do this - are you talkin low 9's like pushing 8.90 range or 9.20 range?
Next which way are you going to get to 427 Cid? By useing the 4.155 bore?
Which stroke/rod length, all of which makes a hell of adifference. OK lets assume that you can end up with a R/R of 1.6 to 1.8?

Then it is possible to get an inline head like a TFS-R, Edelbrock Victor or equivelent to work. My other choice is the Brodix 301 series copy of the 302-C canted-valve NASCAR head with a mild port job and the Edelbrock Yates style manifold. The reason for the Brodix head, other than I'm a dealer, is the "Proven" durability of all their products.

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Old 10-10-2006, 05:20 PM   #7
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abqrb2000: Is this similar to what your talking about?

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...s/DSC00061.jpg

And yes, those are injector bosses that the green tape is covering. I've had that for a good 5 months now...It was on order about 10 months ago.

The CHI heads have a 'uni-port' design. Meaning that you can use either 2V or 4V headers with them. Although, I did compare my exhaust side to a set of 2V Cleveland header gaskets and the ports don't match up. The 4V's would be better but not perfect. I'm getting custom flanges made for mine and making my own set of headers.

TFS-R's are NOT an inline head, they are canted but they still can use a standard windsor intake and exhaust pattern. This is actually true for most of the 'good' aftermarket windsor heads.
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Old 10-10-2006, 06:13 PM   #8
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The shortblock im utilizing is the one available form world products. it uses a dart block,4 bolt mains, 4340crank and rods 4.125x4.000 dont know the rod length though. im not looking for the easiest bolt on head but if it makes good power and happens to be a bolt on then by all means thats the route ill go. also 9.20s would be great and if needed NOS. really want something that will spin to 7000 rpm max n/a and somewhat dependable. heads are my main concern. will any of the heads i mentioned work for what i want to do or should i look else where. headoctor--- fill me in on the brodix heads. thanks
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Old 10-10-2006, 06:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
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The shortblock im utilizing is the one available form world products. it uses a dart block,4 bolt mains, 4340crank and rods 4.125x4.000 dont know the rod length though. im not looking for the easiest bolt on head but if it makes good power and happens to be a bolt on then by all means thats the route ill go. also 9.20s would be great and if needed NOS. really want something that will spin to 7000 rpm max n/a and somewhat dependable. heads are my main concern. will any of the heads i mentioned work for what i want to do or should i look else where. headoctor--- fill me in on the brodix heads. thanks
CNC ported AFR 225s?
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Old 10-10-2006, 08:22 PM   #10
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Are you looking for out of the box heads or would you have them reworked?
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Old 10-11-2006, 12:56 AM   #11
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Mike

This is the old "To Good For Nascar Head" that Ford produced just before the switch to the Yates Style head. It takes 2.250 by 1.710 valves and the compound valve angles are just the same as conventional Boss 302 & Cleveland except they have the Windsor water ports.

When I was doing the heads for some of the first Ford teams in Winston Cup thats what we used - had to cheat the number-plate. NASCAR gave Brodix the deal for the Winston West cars because they still use um.

All the normal Cleveland stuff bolts to the outside - just go to the Brodix site -I think they have pictures. Look for the 300-301 head C-302-B Design they show it with 2.125 int valves they have some hand ported flow numbers to look at & I'm on their site on the Georgia listing.

You're going to have to use pedistal type shaft system for the rocker assm in order to stabalize the valve-train.

These heads on the 358 Cup engines made 750 BHP - we were killin the Chevy's with um.

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Last edited by HeadDoctor; 10-11-2006 at 01:03 AM. Reason: Brodix Part #s
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Old 10-11-2006, 10:30 AM   #12
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These heads look great but are u saying cleveland stuff bolts to the outside such as acxcessories?? can u use a normal windsor intake and what about headers??? thanks again
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Old 10-11-2006, 12:02 PM   #13
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I am no "expert" but i do have a car that runs similar to what you are looking to get out of yours. I have tfs high ports that have been ported and flow 340IN. and 240 ex.2.1 in. 1.6 ex. valves. It put the car in the 5.6's, 5.7's consistently on a 300 shot in the 1/8th with the 410ci. This would equate to mid to high 8's in the 1/4. I guess it just depends on how much you want to spend. Tom
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Old 10-11-2006, 04:32 PM   #14
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HEADOCTOR, ED CURTIS, KATO, JAY ANYONE ELSE WNAT TO CHIME IN?
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Old 10-12-2006, 09:41 PM   #15
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ARE THE BRODIX 301s THE SAME HEAD AS THE OLD C302B HEAD?? THE CHI 225cc HEAD LOOKS GOOD TOO. I THINK THE 258 CC HEAD IS TOO BIG.
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Old 10-12-2006, 11:31 PM   #16
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Give the headdoctor a call.not alot of people have heard of conrad scarry, but he's the guy that broke tim lynch's ffw outlaw record with a set of Dennys heads. he can help you maximize your combo.
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Old 10-13-2006, 04:17 AM   #17
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This guy can build race engines, and I but his heads would say enought!
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...tegoryId=10187
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Old 10-13-2006, 11:15 AM   #18
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lots of discussion about big NA strokers at http://bbs.hardcore50.com/vbulletin/
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Old 10-13-2006, 02:58 PM   #19
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how about the new JEGS/KASSE heads??? 247cc canted valves, stock windsor intake and exhaust locations???
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Old 10-13-2006, 03:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
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how about the new JEGS/KASSE heads??? 247cc canted valves, stock windsor intake and exhaust locations???
I decided to take a chance and be different, everyone uses the AFR and trickflow, I just ordered a pair of kasse heads for my 408w project
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Old 10-13-2006, 03:34 PM   #21
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I decided to take a chance and be different, everyone uses the AFR and trickflow, I just ordered a pair of kasse heads for my 408w project
LET ME KNOW HOW THEY WORK??? WHAT HAVE YOU HEARD SO FAR FROM OTHER PEOPLE?
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Old 10-13-2006, 03:53 PM   #22
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I decided to take a chance and be different, everyone uses the AFR and trickflow, I just ordered a pair of kasse heads for my 408w project

They sure look like Canfield casting.....I bet Canfield makes those castings!!!!
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Old 10-13-2006, 05:04 PM   #23
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What are you using for an intake? Pretty much depends on your head choice huh... I tried to get one of the CHI dominator intakes to go on my AFR's but they didnt have any and neither did any of their US distributors. World casting is supposed to be carrying the CHI line at some time in the future but they dont know when... I ended up cutting the top off a super victor and welding on a Dart 4500 adaptor after I machined a few pounds of it .

I'm running into the 9's with a much heavier car than yours while on nitrous. Personally I'm very happy with the AFR 225's but to be honest I'd be just as happy with a set of those 4V CHI's.

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Old 10-13-2006, 05:33 PM   #24
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You have never worked with a Cleveland head.
The heads more than likely will require loads of work.

While I am a Canfield guy through and through and LOVE Clevelands, you need the AFR 225. I am trying to save you so much hassel that you cannot comprehend how much I mean what I have said.

Seriously, get the AFR's and be done with it!
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Old 10-13-2006, 05:39 PM   #25
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I appreciate all the help! the AFR225s are what i originally had in mind but people kept trying to stir me in a different direction, saying there are better suited heads and thats the easy way out. what about these john kasse canted valve heads with all the windsor accesories??? appreciate the input
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Old 10-13-2006, 05:52 PM   #26
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Yes, there are better heads. No doubt. But you have to look at the dollar spent vs the return on the investment. And the aggrivation to get there. The C302B's fixed up will be better. But seriously, don't do it.
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Old 10-13-2006, 06:15 PM   #27
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ru experinced with the AFR 225s?? with the right camshaft will i get to my goal??? 650-700fwhp 9s on motor n/a with right setup??
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Old 10-13-2006, 06:17 PM   #28
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it has been done without Nos in engines smaller than your proposed 420 incher.......
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Old 10-13-2006, 06:20 PM   #29
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Definately AFR 225's!
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Old 10-13-2006, 06:21 PM   #30
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then AFRs 225 with the right combo has the potential?????
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Old 10-13-2006, 06:26 PM   #31
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Depending on your budget, is what head to use. I'd get the best head I could afford. Are we still talking about a low 9sec. NA car? You best be looking at some serious heads. Look at what most NMRA HS guys run, or the few SB guys. I know what you are after, as this is what I did. You need to find a company, and work with them. This way, you don't get a mismatch set of parts. If you try to listen to everyone on the internet, you will have one AFR225, one Yates head, a Dominator with fuel injection, and who knows what else...... LOL!
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Old 10-13-2006, 06:27 PM   #32
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Mike

Canted valve headed engines are not as easy to build as the In-Line engines
If you've never done one before then you have to watch your P's and Q's
You have to be meticulus with everything about the valve-train end of the set up - the V to P gets critical and the piston shape is also a hands on kind of deal, along with the spark plug VS piston clearance.

Now I'm not saying that you aren't able to do it - just be real aware of what you are doing.

There are some real smart folks on this site - even though I'm the one that originally recomended them - that's not to say it's the only way to go. But again its a 427. How big is the bore and what length is the stroke then what is the rod ratio - you have to figure all of that into the end-result, as well as the rpm range, and all of that deetermines the heads you have to choose from.

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Old 10-13-2006, 06:40 PM   #33
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bore=4.125
stroke=4.00
rod ratio??? have to check, but the shortblock is the man-o war 427w using a dart block w/4bolt mains and eagle forged internals, mahle coated pistons
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Old 10-13-2006, 06:47 PM   #34
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I am not aware of MAHLE producing a piston that the valve pockets are correct for this canted valve head.
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Old 10-13-2006, 06:50 PM   #35
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i think you are right and that is another problem that would have to be corrected if i went with a canted valve head. im already narrowing this head delimma as we speak.
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