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Old 07-06-2006, 11:16 PM   #1
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how will car run with no EGR?

I am installing a 99 5.0 explorer engine in my 91 5.0 aod stang the gt40p heads are not drilled for EGR. How will my car run with no EGR and what is the best to delete it?
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Old 07-07-2006, 12:06 AM   #2
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It should run OK...a little high on the NOx emissions, but other than that (if there aren't any other problems) it should be OK...check this EGR delete information....Hope it helps.
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Old 07-07-2006, 11:09 PM   #3
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Thanks Joel. Has anyone on here deleted their EGR and if so how and how well did your car respond?
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Old 10-18-2006, 03:44 PM   #4
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ok...I found this post by using the "search" function, see it does work......
I'm trying to find out the implications of installing GT40P heads (that do not have thermacter or EGR passages) with a '96 Explorer intake that DOES have all the internal EGR connections. I had overlooked the EGR passage not being present in the heads.......I wanted the '96 intake so that I could connect up my EGR ('88 GT) to at least pass a visual emissions check. I was simply going to bolt the thermacter pipe to the rear of the head. I know having it blocked off is no big deal as it only works during warm up but the EGR is more of a concern......
I found this from the link above........
Quote:
Mythology Case #3:
EGR deletion w/out deleting its function in the EEC-IV logic, will cause engine pre-detonation (pinging) at part-throttle.

Fact #3:
This is a special case, mainly because it would only be true under the following condition:

-----> EGR gases are blocked from entering the intake, but the EGR valve is set to operate so the EGR Valve Position (EVP) sensor related codes are not registered. No other EGR system related codes registered, and system operational (valve opening/closing portion).<-----
So, I assume that having all the EGR connections hooked up but no actual passage into the head will put me in that scenario, correct???
Apart from paying a machine shop to drill the EGR port in the heads is there someway to disable the EGR to maintain driveability? I also do not want the CEL light on constantly.....
Oh, and how drastically do you think it will affect actual sniffer tests????
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Old 10-18-2006, 04:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiveohjunkie View Post
Thanks Joel. Has anyone on here deleted their EGR and if so how and how well did your car respond?
If you have any EGR related codes, the EGR is deleted. There are a lot of EEC-IV cars out there that have the EGR function deleted.....and they don't know about it.....b/c the EEC-IV will take care of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zbeest
So, I assume that having all the EGR connections hooked up but no actual passage into the head will put me in that scenario, correct???
Apart from paying a machine shop to drill the EGR port in the heads is there someway to disable the EGR to maintain driveability? I also do not want the CEL light on constantly.....
If you allow the EGR valve movement (EVP sensor signal varies)....w/out the exhaust gases actually being injected into the mixture, timing will be advanced to compensate for the gases the system assumes are there (EVP signal), and the engine will/may ping.

If you keep everything connected (EVR, EVP and vacuum lines)....all you have to do is plug the vacuum line at the EGR valve (disable EGR valve opening)....the system will see this condition, log code 33, delete EGR function and added timing advance, but will not light the CEL indicator.

Quote:
Oh, and how drastically do you think it will affect actual sniffer tests????
If they check for NOx emissions (a dyno emissions check is required)....it will most likely fail....if they do a static sniffer test (idle and reving engine to 2500 rpms in neutral)...it shouldn't have an impact, since the EGR is not active in neutral.....it only works at part throttle under load conditions.
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Old 10-18-2006, 06:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
If they check for NOx emissions (a dyno emissions check is required)....it will most likely fail....if they do a static sniffer test (idle and reving engine to 2500 rpms in neutral)...it shouldn't have an impact, since the EGR is not active in neutral.....it only works at part throttle under load conditions.
Unfortunately, they do do a dyno test and a curb idle test. I guess I'll start researching what's involved in drilling the heads! Thanks for the info Joel5.0!
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Old 10-18-2006, 09:04 PM   #7
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ok, so now I've gone and thoroughly confused myself! I decided to unbox the heads and intake to see what holes were where and what I was missing with regards to EGR connectivity. To me it looks like GT40P heads DO have an EGR port (at least the ones I have) unless what I'm seeing is something completely different. The heads both have a small port about 1/2 " x 1" right in the middle of each bank of intake ports. On the lower intake manifold ('96 Explorer) is a matching port (only one side) that exits as a hole about 3/4" in diameter right in the middle of the upper machined surface (where the upper manifold bolts to). The upper manifold has a matching hole that exits at the throttle body surface as a slot. Is this not the EGR path???
If it is, then someone is either giving incomplete or just plain wrong info regarding the EGR on GT40P heads. They are most definately GT40P heads (four bars and stamped GT40P) so they are NOT regular GT40 heads that apparently were "drilled" for EGR.
p.s found this picture that may show better......
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec.../photo_09.html
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Last edited by zbeest; 10-18-2006 at 09:16 PM. Reason: added picture
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Old 10-18-2006, 10:33 PM   #8
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Here's a pic of three intakes, starting from the left side....'97+ Explorer (GT40P heads), '96- Explorer (GT40 heads), GT40 intake....see anything different?....regarding the EGR port?



EGR valve in '97+ Explorer's (GT40P heads), used an external exhaust tube connected to the RH header....something like.....



Wonder why?....
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Old 10-18-2006, 10:45 PM   #9
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Ohhhh I do I do I do. The air tube in the middle of the intake on left side. I forget exactly but that is not there.
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Old 10-19-2006, 08:59 AM   #10
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Yes, I see that- but that's got nothing to do with my point regarding the port on the GT40P heads does it? I have the MIDDLE intake shown above. If you follow that hole down it goes to that 1/2" x 1" port that I described. That port matches up with an identical port on the GT40P head as shown in the link here http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec.../photo_09.html. My point is -if that small port is NOT an EGR port then what the heck is it and why does it line up with the EGR port on the intake? I'm trying to clarify this because I've found info here and on other sites that says the GT40Ps are not "drilled" for EGR. Maybe they really meant that they are not drilled for THERMACTER ports which I can completely agree with but that's NOT the EGR ports now is it????
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Old 10-19-2006, 09:26 AM   #11
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I have a set of GT40p heads right here (they're going to be sent to Thumper for porting)....the center port on the heads is connected to the exhaust port of a single cylinder (#7 for the LH and #2 for the RH head).....you could use it. But I would rather install the outside tube setup to the header to keep intake cooler....your call though.
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Old 10-19-2006, 09:54 AM   #12
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See, now we're getting somewhere! This may benefit others in the same boat..... I would have "thought" that the same port location would have been used on regular GT40 irons to allow the '96 Explorer intake to function with INTERNAL EGR. So, based on what we're saying it sounds like the intakes WITH internal EGR ('96 early '97 and GT) CAN be bolted to the GT40P heads and have a functioning EGR system. In other words, there does not apear to be a difference between GT40 and GT40P heads as far as cast EGR ports are concerned. The only thing that is NOT "drilled" is the thermacter holes....From what I've been told regarding that is that it is not a showstopper as far as emissions is concerned -as it only functions during warm up. All our testing is done at operating temperature. To pass a visual you can bolt the tubes to the back of the head......
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Old 10-19-2006, 05:22 PM   #13
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Having no egr does nothing to the way your car will run. it will increase your emmisions and possibly throw a check engine light (it will on sn95's Im not sure about fox body's). the egr turns off at open throttle so it wont improve hp. hope this helps.
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Old 10-19-2006, 06:06 PM   #14
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I have GT40P heads on my stang-they are fully egr functional. From what I understood, the holes in the back of the heads needed to be drilled. central coast mustang prepared them.
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Old 10-19-2006, 06:20 PM   #15
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With no egr provision the car (engine) will use more gas at part throttle cruise, it will run hotter at part throttle cruise, and it will produce more emissions gases, notably HC and NOx.

EGR will not hurt WOT performance, as mentioned, the EGR system shuts down during WOT, as well as during idle.

The thermactor passage through the head, Holes in back, have nothing to do with EGR function. The thermactor passage is part of the catalytic converter system, and reducing HC......
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Old 10-19-2006, 07:49 PM   #16
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Exactly Kim....There is some bad information floating around that leads you to believe that the EGR passages in the GT40P heads need to be drilled to be functional but in reality it's the thermactor passages that are not drilled. Not having the thermactor passages isn't a huge ordeal as you can bolt up the tubes still to pass a visual emissions test. The fact that they do not work should not have an impact on the emissions testing as it's nearly always done at operating temp and the thermactor only works during warmup conditions. The EGR on the other hand could have a big impact on emissions as some locations test at part throttle on a dyno. That's why I was on a mission to find out how to get an internal EGR intake manifold to bolt up to the GT40P heads and still function
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Old 04-25-2007, 05:52 PM   #17
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Do the heads have anything to do with the ability to run EGR?

Also, has anyone heard of 'race heads' like the AFR205's being drilled for the thermactor system? Or, would it just be cheaper to port some 185's?
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