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Old 01-19-2005, 11:23 PM   #1
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How much material does honing a cylinder remove?

Does anyone have any idea?
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Old 01-19-2005, 11:26 PM   #2
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It depends upon the type of hone and the grit of the stones used.
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Old 01-19-2005, 11:33 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshua.y
Does anyone have any idea?
in theory you could use a hone cab to take out as much material as you want. in practice normally about .003". idea is to use hone to true bore dimensions and give it the proper surface finish. boring bar actually rips metal out on a microscopic level and honing stones level off peaks and valleys.
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Old 01-19-2005, 11:35 PM   #4
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one thousandths...


but if the hole is straight and round or not ,....who knows....

it has to be honed enough to straighten the hole.

and we are NOT talking about a bottle brush....!!!!!
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Old 01-19-2005, 11:40 PM   #5
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Typical hones do not take material like you think they would. A hone simply "scratches" the cylinder walls to create a cross-hatch. Rub some oil on the cylinder wall, insert the hone, and pull the trigger. Revolutions of the hone should be slow-SLOW! You're hand movement should be pulling and pushing the hone rapidly up and down.(Kinda like another activity I've heard of!) It does not take very long to do a cylinder as well, but dont be nervous, I've tested this theory- and never been unsuccessful.
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Old 01-19-2005, 11:48 PM   #6
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All abrassives remove material. Speed, pressure and grit determine how much is removed though. They dont scratch the bore, They change the surface to a uniform shape and texture.
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Old 01-20-2005, 12:32 AM   #7
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the proper hone is only considered an actual HONE when the rigid stones have some form of rigid adjustment.....and a guide or back up "shoe"....
...NOT some mickey mouse spring................

this form of hone will actually straighten oval bores and will make square bores round........proper technique will remove taper as well.....

no spring loaded or bottle brush --ball hone will do this.........!!!!!

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Old 01-20-2005, 01:05 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato Engineering
the proper hone is only considered an actual HONE when the rigid stones have some form of rigid adjustment.....and a guide or back up "shoe"....
...NOT some mickey mouse spring................

this form of hone will actually straighten oval bores and will make square bores round........proper technique will remove taper as well.....

no spring loaded or bottle brush --ball hone will do this.........!!!!!

ditto!

You can remove .0001" with a properly shaped rigid hone...
Or you can remove .060" or more...
I recommend .005" be left after boring to remove with the hone.

Just say no to springs or ball hones!
These are for people who do not have a real hone.
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Old 01-20-2005, 01:08 AM   #9
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those ball hones.................. we used to call them corn cobs on a stick......










or "monkey brushes...."

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Old 01-20-2005, 01:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato Engineering
those ball hones.................. we used to call them corn cobs on a stick......

or "monkey brushes...."


But in the hands of a mechanic... they are


a "machine shop on a drill"
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Old 01-20-2005, 02:54 AM   #11
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My 410 was originally built using a cracked cylinder head (around #6 valveseat), which pressurized my cooling system. So, I yanked the engine and my builders tore it down, changed the bearings (I think), rehoned the cylinders, put on the new heads, etc. Then, apparently, the rings never seated. Runs good, made the dyno numbers in my sig and gallery, but it burns a quart of oil about every 250 miles and oils the plugs. My builders are gonna swap everything over to another block (for free).

Do you think this additional honing had anything to do with the failure of the rings to seat?

And, Joshua, I'm curious as to why you're curious about this.
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Old 01-20-2005, 05:50 PM   #12
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Well...I am curious about why you are curious about me being curious! J/K My grandpa was honing out a cylinder block yesterday and it got me thinking (no...he wasn't using a monkey brush).
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Old 01-20-2005, 06:28 PM   #13
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Okay, cool. I wasn't trying to be nosy or anything. I was just concerned if this was something you were going to try and do yourself for the first time. From what more knowledgeable sources than me have said above, it sounds like you need to know what you're doing and have the right equipment. Also, while I'm not sure the rehoning that was done on my engine caused the rings not to seat or contributed to the problem, I didn't want you to do something that might cause the same problem.

I wish I had a grandpa who hones cylinders. He sounds like a handy guy to have around. For that matter, I wish I still had a grandpa period.
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Old 01-20-2005, 09:29 PM   #14
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We use the type hone Kato is reffering to, We call them either a straight hone or hard hone. They use a ring on top of the hone that is attatched to a splined shaft which when rotated either retracts or expands the hone, This is how you control the tension of the stones on the bore.
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Old 01-21-2005, 12:16 AM   #15
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The best honing machines use a honing head with guide shoes that can be adjusted independent of the honing stones.
This way the stone pressure can be adjusted with the feeding mechanism without the guide shoes pressing excessively or unnecessarily against the cylinder wall while you attempt to apply pressure with the stones.
Also the guide shoes cannot be allowed to "float" while the stones make contact with the wall or the guides serve no purpose.

Our Sunnen hone uses a positive mechanical feed.
We also have a honing machine with a microprocessor control that maintains a constant programed load on the cylinder while the stroking rate/rpm is precisely maintained.

Suitable grit, properly dressed stones with plenty of honing fluid give good cylinder finished. we also use diamond superabrasives.

It still requires a skilled operator to control taper.
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Old 01-21-2005, 01:43 AM   #16
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My machinist(by mine I mean the one that works in the back of the store I work in) bores the block to withing .003", then hones the rest. He also matches every piston to every hole, doesn't matter if its a blown big block or a briggs off a lawn mower. It is really nice having all my machine work done for free.
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Old 01-21-2005, 05:03 AM   #17
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hey, headman..



not all of the people that use corn cob hones are considered a "mechanic"....

granted, for some that is the best that they know or that they can do.


but for others, they know of better ways to do the job properly.....


......I am not saying that ball hones are NoT good,....I use them some times...


.....but, as you know,

a good and properly trained mechanic knows when to use it and when NOT to use it...





.......the problem comes about when the ball hone or spring loaded "glaze breaker" is all they ever use......
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