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Old 12-23-2004, 09:12 PM   #1
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Need help w/ EFI --> Carb Conversion

I did a search and found alot of helpful stuff.. Found out I need the distributor from a Manual trans '85 V-8 Mustang, but do I still need to use the computer with this distributor?? I would prefer to completely eliminate the computer in my car.. If I need it for the '85 distributor, what are my other alternatives??

Also, found out I need to change to a single pick-up tube in the fuel tank.. Where would I get this from?

Lastly, what type of power should I expect with a stock '91 302 shortblock w/new gaskets & SFI balancer,stock heads, performer intake, stock cam, holley 600cfm carb w/custom cold air kit, shorty headers, x-pipe, flo's, & MSD ignition & pullies.. Will I make less, equal or more power than the stock EFI motor..

I am consider ing upgrading the stock cam to a Comp Cams Hyd Roller.. Which would be best.. I intend on a 25-2800 stall & 3.73-4.10 gears with all above.. If needed, I may do a slight port & polish on the heads w/new valvetrain & roller rockers..

Any input appreciated.

Joe
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Old 12-24-2004, 02:53 PM   #2
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If it is electronic ignition then yes you need the module (computer) with the distributor. The only other way around that is mechanical advance or vacuum advance.

Not sure of power numbers being it is carberated.

Happy Holidays!!!
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Old 12-24-2004, 03:08 PM   #3
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Well I've been considering an HEI distributor.. Just researching manufacturers..Saw 2 on Ebay with prices from $99-149... Then would add an MSD 6a & BLaster coil..
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Old 12-24-2004, 03:18 PM   #4
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ehhh puke, leave that low RPM chevy crap for the chevies.

The 85 distributor for the carbed appliaction will be equiped with a roller camshaft compatable gear, vacume advance, and will plug and play with a duraspark II (blue gromet) ignition module. Or can be easily pluged into an MSD 6AL ignition box... either way, you can bolt a carb manifold and drop the distributor, and go.

As for the fuel sending unit. Pull the sending unit out of the tank, remove the pump. Replace air gap between pick-up and the the top of the sending unit with 3/8 steel line. Put some fuel compatable rubber hose over the coupling of the two steel lines. You can easily fabricate a way to mount the stainer at the bottom. Just get something that it snaps tight to, typically a 3/8 barb fitting with a 5/8 NPT end. Put the barb end in the hose, and then snap the strainer to it.

You can then run a return style fuel system, with the regulator dumping excess fuel back to the tank through the 5/16 stock return line, as the vehicle is equiped.
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Old 12-24-2004, 03:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91BklynGT
Well I've been considering an HEI distributor.. Just researching manufacturers..Saw 2 on Ebay with prices from $99-149... Then would add an MSD 6a & BLaster coil..
the 85's used a duraspark ignition system- i don't believe that the distibutor has provisions for mechanical advance- it was handled in the duraspark control unit. the hei conversion will work fine up to about 6500rpm. if you are using an aftermarket cdi ignition you can use the o.e. pickup in either distributor to trigger the box- the hei has a mechanical advance, the duraspark doesn't
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Old 12-24-2004, 03:22 PM   #6
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duraspark has mechanical advance... and the 85 distributor has a vacume advance as well....
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Old 12-24-2004, 03:30 PM   #7
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Joe,

In the past I've converted several pre '86 EFI cars to a 4 bbl carb. I used the '85 5.0HO carbed distributor and wire in an MSD-6AL ignition box to trigger the distributor. Although, I just picked up an '86 notch that was a converted 4cyl car. The person who did the swap used a. '86-93 TFI distributor. I have not had time to trace the wiring and see how its wired up. The only drawback is no spark advance.

You can get a drop in fuel tank insert. Granitelli makes one or Summit Racing might carry one.

Carbs make more horsepower, EFI makes more touque. I would swap the Performer intake for either a Weiand Stealth or Edlebrock Performer RPM intake. The higher stall converter will flash past 1500 rpms easy, this is were those intakes start building power. A TFS #1 cam works good with ported stock heads and it's powerband is very similar to the two intakes I mentioned.

With ported E7s and basically your proposed combo ( I used a Torker 289 intake) and made 265 rwhp using an AOD for the trans. I still had the AC, PS, smog pump, stock pullies and a stock belt running everything.

I had about $1500 in parts on a stock shortblock. This included the head porting, valvejob, new valves, springs and other related valvetrain parts. It also covered the TFS #1 cam, intake, carb, distributor, MSD 6AL, MSD coil carbed fuel system, headers, H-pipe, catback, gaskets and everything else needed.
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Old 12-24-2004, 03:43 PM   #8
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thanks alot for all the info!! 84LTDLX, if I got the '85 distributor, does it matter if it comes from an auto or manual transmission car??
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Old 12-24-2004, 03:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kim
duraspark has mechanical advance... and the 85 distributor has a vacume advance as well....
could be- it's been damn near 15 yrs. since i've had to work on one of these systems. mostly what i remember is that the distributor rarely had a problem-it was almost always the control module that failed. as far as the hei conversion- it's a neat and simple way to package a ignition system. been plenty of mean bowties that use it.
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04 f-150 5.4 3v 16.4@82 geez, i could finish the crossword puzzle waiting for the finish line.
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Old 12-24-2004, 03:54 PM   #10
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Right up to 5500 RPM when it starts to come apart...
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Old 12-24-2004, 04:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kim
Right up to 5500 RPM when it starts to come apart...
i'm not gonna get into a pissin match- but what's the reasoning behind that statement?
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04 f-150 5.4 3v 16.4@82 geez, i could finish the crossword puzzle waiting for the finish line.
03 suzuki sv1000s-need some knee pucks
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Old 12-24-2004, 04:05 PM   #12
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If I wanted to use a mechanical fuel pump, what do I need to do?? I read that I would have to cut a hole into the timing cover to connect it.. Couldnt I just replace the cover with one from the carbbed engine?? I'm guessing I would have to change the fuel line going to the tank also?? And then add the extension going from the mech. pump to the carb..

Please correct me if I am wrong
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Old 12-24-2004, 05:29 PM   #13
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Your going to have to pull the timming cover anyhow, if you want to run a mechanical pump. Your going to have to come up with the cam eccentric to actuate the pump, and bolt it to the cam.

Swapping timming covers would be the smarter thing to do. The late model timming cover doesn't have provision (space) for the cam eccentric.
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Old 12-25-2004, 11:23 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91BklynGT
thanks alot for all the info!! 84LTDLX, if I got the '85 distributor, does it matter if it comes from an auto or manual transmission car??
You NEED the one for a T5 car. The one for the auto will shred the gear and send metal through the engine.

Depending on the year of the EFI engine you have, some have a timing cover that has the boss for the fuel pump and threaded holes for the hold down bolts. It has a cast block off plate that can be drilled out by hand and will accept any Ford style fuel pump. These casting molds were used for the carbed and early EFI engines. Later 5.0 HOs use a different mold for the timing cover

I made the 265 rwhp using a stock fuel pump specced for a 1969 Mustang with the 300HP 351W 4bbl engine. I had a wide band O2 sensor probe in the tailpipe and the AF ratio was around 12/13-1 across the pull. Fuel was 89 octane from some local gas station. I'll post the dyno sheet if I still have it, this was back in 2000 that I built/dynoed the car. My complete fuel system cost about $50.

Last edited by '84 LTD LX; 12-25-2004 at 11:27 AM. Reason: speeling ;)
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Old 12-25-2004, 01:33 PM   #15
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PResuming the engine is a 91, the cover does not have the provision for the fuel pump, nor does the cam have the mechanical pump offset attached to it. Ford changed the cover and droped the pump offset in 87
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Old 12-26-2004, 07:13 AM   #16
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In the early '90s came across an oddball '85 302HO in one of my cars. It had the E5 roller block, '85 forged pistons, E5 heads, CFI flat tappet cam and the CFI injection setup.The block was a roller, but the factory hole for the lifter holdown were not tapped. It had no fuel pump eccentric attached to the timing chain. It had the 'pendulum' shaped part attached to the timng chain like on later models. That engine ended up with a 4bbl carb, 289 heads and an E303 cam. I tapped the holdown bosses with a 1/4-20 tap with the shortblock still in the car. Ran a used cam with junkyard lifters out of an '87 5.0 HO longblock I bought for $100.

I would go to the junkyard and pull the timing cover and fuel pump eccentric off a junk car. These parts are very expensive at the dealer.

The Holley blue pump and the regulator that comes with it could be used without opening the front of the engine. My newly purchased '86 notch has one and I drove from Newark,NJ to Boston,MA without any problem. Took just over 5 hours with one stop along the way. I've been driving the car dailey for about 2 weeks now, the carb has no trouble starting and running in the cold. It has gotten down to 6*F already. I work the overnite shift at UPS. When I go for my 'lunch' it is around 330-400AM and that is when the coldest part of the day is. A carb with a Holley blue pump is very streetable in cold weather. Just adjust the choke on the carb properly and first start in the morning is a breeze. Wait a minute for the pump to bring up pressure, pump the gas once to set the choke, then start the car. Kinda no brainer....
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Old 12-26-2004, 10:26 AM   #17
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cool.. thanks alot once again for all the info.. Looks like I am just going to go with the electric pump..

Now, next question.. the fuel line.. does it have to be upgraded to 3/8"..? I will probably do it anyway.. DOes anyone sell pre-bent 3/8" SS lines for the stang? Or do I have to buy the lines & bend them myself.. No big deal if so.. Just hoping I can buy the lines & not have to deal with the flaring & all the fittings n stuff..

Where is a good spot to mount the electric pump..? I am going to go with the Holley Blue if it matters..

Back to the tank, would I be able to just swap the tank from a carb'd model, like an '85 so that I dont have to get the insert for mine? Or would getting the insert be easier n smarter thing to do..??

thanks once again..Hope everyone had a good xmas!
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Old 12-27-2004, 04:10 PM   #18
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To use 3/8 line, you would need an aftermarket insert, modify the stocker or a sumped tank. 5/16 should be fine, I used 5/16 hardline to plumb my fuel system on the 265 rwhp LTD. Summit racing sells the line in 25 foot coils. Get the coiled steel line from Summit and make your own one peice fuel line. You can use 5/16 rubber line to make connections instead of flaring. NHRA rules allowed 12 inches total in the fuel system for connections. Just check the connections when you change the oil in the engine.

Mount the pump close to the tank and so it can gravity feed. The '85 tank and pickup will work, but you gas gauge will not. '86 and down pickups have a different resistor than the '87 up Mustangs.

FWIW...On my '86 notch, I'm swapping the TFI dist. it has for an '85 carbed dist, MSD 6AL and Blaster 2F coil. Believe it or not these are left over from a different project car and were sitting on the shelf. I had the car running with the different parts, but I need some more wire to do it right.
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Old 12-28-2004, 07:28 AM   #19
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You also could use a DUI or PROFORM dist. that way you don't need box and/or coil only one 12v wire hook-up
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Old 12-28-2004, 07:06 PM   #20
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thanks alot '84.. The Blaster 2F coil comes with a resistor.. You mentioned I would need a resistor wire with the '85 Distributor.. Does the '85 Dizzy need a special plug/harness connector like the TFI has going into it? If it does, then I guess I would need that with the dizz.. If not, then all I gotta do is make sure I wire in the resistor, right??

For the fuel, I'll probably go as you suggested.. With the 5/16" line.. Easiest n cheapest route.. Just trying to decide on either the Holley Red or Blue electric fuel pumps..? I think with the mods I will make when I rebuild the motor, it might make 300FWHP.. So I think i would be okay with the Red pump.. What do you think?
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Old 12-28-2004, 09:58 PM   #21
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The blue pump comes with a regulator. The red does not, this makes the blue pump the better choice. IMO

The DuraSpark dist. has it's own plug, I cut the connector off a junk car wiring harness, at the same junkyard I pulled the coil connector of a mid '70s Ford. I got both wiring pieces from the same car. It has the 'horseshoe' style connector. You could use the Blaster 2 ( instead of the 2F which takes the clip on 'horsehoe' connector) coil and use solderless terminals to connect the wiring to the coil.

That resistor wire cuts the voltage down to the DuraSpark, run straight 12volts and it will overheat and quit working. You need the resistor wire for the DuraSpark box, not the coil. This is why I went with the MSD 6AL in my other car.
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Old 12-31-2004, 11:57 AM   #22
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So if use the MSD, it will eliminate the duraspark module.. right? I think thats how i had my old msd connected when i had a camaro with the HEI dist..had to removed the 4-pin module and i think it used a jumper wire or something.. thats the point to the MSD control.. ?? So all I need is to get the dist, MSD box,blaster coil & the connector & I should be good to go.. ? As far as the ignition goes at least..

For the fuel, I'm probably gonna get the insert for my tank.. The Granitelli insert.. Then I'll just plumb 3/8 line with the holley pump..

Last edited by 91BklynGT; 12-31-2004 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 12-31-2004, 12:04 PM   #23
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Yup... thats all you need.

MSD has the wiring online to wire the MSD box direct to the distributor.
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Old 12-31-2004, 05:21 PM   #24
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As kim stated, all ya need is the MSD and no DuraSpark box. That MSD wiring info For FORD IGNITIONS Wiring a Ford DuraSpark using Magnetic Pickup Trigger is here, http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/pdf17.pdf/

For the stock fuel pickup insert mods see this thread.http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=588259

The MSD 6AL can be found in the classifieds for around $100, if you feel safe buying used parts off the internet. I've bought numerous stuff and never got burnt.
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Old 01-06-2005, 04:02 PM   #25
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Just outta curiousity, why couldnt I run the stock in-tank pump and add a regulator??

I've seen posts saying "you cant/shouldnt.." but others saying.."well I have..and have no problems.. "
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Old 01-06-2005, 04:10 PM   #26
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also, being I cant find anyone with a used distributor that I need, I found one at Autozones website.. when you do a search, I bring it up under 1985 mustang, 5.0 4bbl, man trans.. But then it asks for steel or cast iron distributor gear.. Which do I need to run with my factory hyd roller cam?? Although, both have the same part number.. weird.. But I would just like to know which i need.. steel or C.Iron..

Thanks
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Old 01-06-2005, 08:45 PM   #27
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Factory roller cam, steel gear.
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Old 01-07-2005, 11:04 AM   #28
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Arrow Use the steel gear option...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 91BklynGT
Just outta curiousity, why couldnt I run the stock in-tank pump and add a regulator??

I've seen posts saying "you cant/shouldnt.." but others saying.."well I have..and have no problems.. "
Some people do, but you need a good pump. Such as a 255 Liter Per Hour pump, this converts to about 67-68 Gallons Per Hour. A stock mechanical pump flows around 50-60 GPH ( use one from a 1969 Mustang with the 300 horsepower 351W 4barrel carb option ) and can be had for around $20.

A stock 88 LPH flows around 23GPH ( or half of the $20 pump above) and is not a good choice. The pressure will be fine, but it will not feed enough volume. You need a specific Mallory Regulator with a fuel tank return line fitting and it's around $100.
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Old 01-07-2005, 06:23 PM   #29
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cool thanks for the info about the gear.. and also the fuel pump.. I decided to just go with the electric. I was just curious about the stock one, thats all.. Summit sells a kit with the electric fuel pump, regulator,lines,fittings, clamps & filter..So I am just going to get that & the Granitelli Insert for the tank..

thanks again
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