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Old 02-25-2004, 04:28 PM   #1
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Lower radiator hose - what keeps it from collapsing?

I noticed there is not a wire coil in the lower radiator hose to keep it from collapsing. What keeps it from pinching shut under high rpms? The reason I ask is my car likes to run hot when bringing up the rpms for a sustained amount of time. I'm in the process of building a new engine/power adder combination and don't want to run into the same high temp problems.

I was able to get by when I lived in PA, but now that I moved to FL, the heat is much more intense. I have taken a few measures to prevent overheating. 180 degree high flow t-stat, Be Cool radiator, Lincoln Mark VIII fan assy, CSI street duty electric water pump.

I'm thinking the electric water pump will be more consistent flow so I'll be able to see if the hoses get sucked together or not with minimal load on the engine.
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Old 02-25-2004, 04:37 PM   #2
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Mine has always had a spring in it.... maybe yours was taken out??
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Old 02-25-2004, 04:45 PM   #3
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This was new from Auto Zone.
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Old 02-25-2004, 05:23 PM   #4
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It's supposed to have a spring in it. Make them give you one that does.
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Old 02-25-2004, 05:31 PM   #5
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From my understanding the new hoses, do not need springs in it, I know mine doesn't and it holds up fine.. Is it easy to squeeze? I could not do it to mine..
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Old 02-25-2004, 05:36 PM   #6
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I work at a auto parts store in KC and they sell all of the radiator hoses without a spring and I had to take out the old spring and replace it in the new hose. It should not collapse with the spring in it.

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Old 02-25-2004, 09:07 PM   #7
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Put a spring in it. If it doesn't have one you should get one that does.
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Old 02-26-2004, 03:51 AM   #8
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the hose will only collapse if you have an air pocket,"burp"
the system and dont worry about it.
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Old 02-26-2004, 07:47 AM   #9
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Mine has springs in the upper and lower.

Check out the link - this controller (scroll down) will optimize your water pump and fan operation, and minimize current draw. Designed specifically for you fan/water pump set up. It'll help in FL.

http://www.dccontrol.com/kitsr1.htm
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Old 02-26-2004, 08:14 AM   #10
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My lower doesn't have one either. I'm using a Meziere electric pump and a restrictor plate instead of a thermostat.
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Old 02-26-2004, 08:19 AM   #11
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a thermostat would limit flow so collapse won't occur.sounds like your not running one.not wise.upgrade rad,put in stat,should help.or spring it and suffer excissive flow and leak coolant down track.if i'm wrong in my assumtions of a working thermostat in place ,i'm sorry
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Old 02-26-2004, 10:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by fyv oh
the hose will only collapse if you have an air pocket,
Nonsense. Maybe the hose in question is designed to work without a spring but the presence of an air pocket is NOT what causes them to collapse. The vacuum (or more correctly, negative pressure differential) caused by the water pump drawing water out of the radiator is what causes them to collapse.

I have had to re-use springs before. I would again before I'd put a lower rad hose in without one.
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Old 02-26-2004, 11:28 AM   #13
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Thanks for the responses. I'll go directly to Ford and get the hoses there. Hopefully, they will have springs where necessary.

To answer a few comments/questions:

I do run a thermostat - high flow 180 degree one to be exact. I have modified it with a little weep hole to keep air from becomming trapped.

It is possible for air to be trapped in my system. I've gone through a series of head gaskets, so cooling system abuse is common. Hopefully, not with the new engine.

I like the restrictor plate idea, but I drive this car on the street too.

Great link with the controller for the electric water pump and fan control. I can see that helping. I'm ordering that!!!

None of the hoses I have laying around here have springs. I'll buy one of those flexible ones that have springs if I have too and take the spring from the flex hose (I prefer the molded hose look)

All the hoses I have are soft as butter and bend in real easily.
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Old 02-26-2004, 12:01 PM   #14
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Mick - if you haven't yet, read the tech section (go to the main web page) on the controller. It minimizes current flow and completely does away with the big current spikes when big fans and pumps first pull on the electrical system. Really neat set up. I can see a controller like that with electric fan/water pump freeing up 15-25HP above 4-5K rpm. I ordered mine last night.
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Old 02-26-2004, 12:51 PM   #15
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Brian and I are playing e-mail tag right now. Thanks.
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Last edited by Mick; 02-27-2004 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 02-26-2004, 01:59 PM   #16
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The ones at ford do not use a spring either, The new hoses ( from what I was told ) Do not need the spring in it..

I do not have one and run a 331-strim setup in South Florida and never go over 180 degrees
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Old 02-26-2004, 04:12 PM   #17
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Mick - My set up uses part of the Volvo cooling system - a resevoir that's the highest part of the system and a vent at the top of the radiator tank into the resevoir so that trapped air isn't a problem. You might have to add 8 oz. of fluid after the first full heating/cooling cycle, but that's it. You might look at adding some sort of vent/plug at the high part of the system to let air out when you're filling the system. I'm surprised more people don't do it.
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Old 02-26-2004, 05:47 PM   #18
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Has ANYONE ever suffered a collapsed radiator hose at normal operating temperature? The entire cooling system is charged to 15psi. Considering how easily coolant flows through the system, it's going to take a hell of a waterpump to develop enough vaccuum to overcome that 15psi in the lower hose, and then lower the pressure even more to collapse the hose. I think we're looking at an old wives' tale here.
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Old 02-26-2004, 06:07 PM   #19
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Yes. That's how I know first hand about this. My dad was going nuts figuring out why a used car he bought would overheat especially when it was being run at higher RPMs. Cap was fine, stat was fine, rad was good. Finally found out there was no spring in the lower hose and it was sucking shut at higher WP accelerations. Put a spring back in it and the problem was solved.
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Old 02-26-2004, 06:19 PM   #20
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RayIII - actually, the entire system isn't at the higher pressure - and that's the problem. As MFE alludes to, under certain conditions the suction side of the pump can pull the pressure in the hose down to below atmospheric pressure, and when it does, it's atmospheric pressure that crushes the hose closed.
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Old 02-26-2004, 07:01 PM   #21
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I bought one last fall at Napa and asked why there was no spring, the fellow said some have and some don't, and not to worry about it- I haven't had a problem yet. (I hope I never do!)
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Old 02-26-2004, 07:09 PM   #22
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Could one see the hose get sucked shut if they rev it up while looking under the hood?
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Old 02-26-2004, 07:16 PM   #23
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Possibly, but I don't know if it's an instantaneous thing or if it takes a little time (e.g. longer than you want to hold an engine at high revs while unloaded)
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Old 02-26-2004, 07:30 PM   #24
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Combined with the time is the fact that the thermal characteristics of the system change significantly when, say, you're at full throttle in 4th gear at high rpm (lots more heat/power being generated by the motor) than when you're revving it to the same rpm in neutral (very little heat/power being generated)
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Old 02-28-2004, 02:55 AM   #25
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the cooling system has a specific capacity(obviously it changes
with mods),so if its not "full" the unused space has to be filled some how & since you cant suck the radiator flat,suction side of system(the lower hose) is what deals with it.
cooling system is pressurized & air compresses easy.
pressure+full=NO COLLAPSED HOSE,HOW WOULD NEGATIVE PRESSURE DIFFERENTIAL COMPRESS WATER?(it cant)
MFE-ITS SOUNDS LIKE YOUR DAD GOT IT FULL THE SECOND TIME AROUND.....spring is a band-aid for people who dont know how to fill cooling systems(so it cant suck closed)
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Old 02-28-2004, 08:57 AM   #26
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hi flow thermostat.if hose is collapsing then rad not flowing enough coolant to supply it evidently.upgrade to 3 core or geting your core cleaned may help.
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Old 03-01-2004, 10:32 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by fyv oh
HOW WOULD NEGATIVE PRESSURE DIFFERENTIAL COMPRESS WATER?(it cant)
It doesn't compress it, it displaces it. Think. And if your LOWER hose has air in it, you have much bigger problems to think about. Think some more.

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Old 03-01-2004, 10:58 AM   #28
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I wasn't gonna bother responding, but since mfe has waded in (quite correctly), I will too. The system isn't under some magical constant pressure throughout -- in fact, water wouldn't move through the pump if there wasn't a pressure differential between the upstream and downstream side. And pumps can pull the pressure low enough on the suction side to easily displace enough water in the hose allowing atmospheric pressure to collapse the hose. Especially if the pumps are asked to perform outside their design envelope (speed, fluid density, temperature, suction head, etc.) And, all it takes is a small reduction of the cross sectional area upstream of the pump (hose starts to collapse) to restrict flow - which causes a further reduction in area limiting further limiting flow (hose collapses more) -- in short, once a bit of collapse occurs, the hose closes off in a hurry unless the operating parameters are changed.
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Old 03-01-2004, 02:40 PM   #29
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You can get them with a spring through ford. At least I did for a 94 GT...
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Old 03-01-2004, 03:01 PM   #30
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I don't have a spring in my lower hose, even with the huge Meziere 55gpm pump, it's fine.
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