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Old 11-17-2003, 01:24 PM   #1
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427W engine dyno results (EFI/hydr. roller street motor)

I just wanted to let everyone know I FINALLY finished my engine build and have engine dyno results. Here is the combo:

Shortblock:
-SVO W-351W block 4.125" bore
-4.00" Scat billet crank
-6.200" Scat forged rods
-Custom lightweight pistons (ended up 10.1:1)
-FTI hydro. roller cam (256/260 @ .050 and .547/.547 lift)
-FTI sourced hydro. lifters

Induction:
-Victor Jr. heads (bought as Stage 3 Bennet Racing CNC from an abandoned project and had FTI clean everything up and convert to hydro. matched springs) 2.055/1.6 valves
-Victor 5.8 EFI manifold: lower port matched, upper ported with runner length improved by FTI
-90mm Accufab TB

EFI:
-42# Lucas injectors
-Accel Gen. VII from/to be tuned at Livernois

Anyway, the results:

532 HP @5700
526 ft-lbs. @4700

The power peak was almost even from 5600-5900rpm depending on the pull and the torque held 500+ ft-lbs. for 1500rpm.

I can't wait to get this in the car and let you know how it feels with the Tremec TKO and 3.73s.

I will try and attach the dyno graphs and sheets, but I may need some help.

Later, James
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Old 11-17-2003, 01:28 PM   #2
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I already started this thread on Hardcore50.com, if you guys want to check it out. Hopefully this link works:

http://bbs.hardcore50.com/vbulletin/...threadid=14776

I have the dyno sheets saved and they are also in the Hardcore link if someone could help me post them.

Hopefully you guys have some good comments.
Thanks, James
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Old 11-17-2003, 01:33 PM   #3
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Thats a decent power output. Would have thought the hp would have been a little higher, but still awesome pump gas motor.

Later, Greg(XSR)
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Old 11-17-2003, 01:34 PM   #4
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First, I have to thank:
Ed Curtis (FTI) custom cam/head/intake work
Erik Koenig (racer7088) advice and help with parts
Livernois Motorsports

Here is some additional info:

Cam LSA 114
Flywheel corrected #s from the engine dyno. Some dyno fields (like fueal numbers are not correct--they were not used)
The engine had an electric water pump, regular 20W50 oil, and 2" Hooker dyno headers. It will have a regular/mechanical water pump, 1 7/8" Kooks headers, and synthetic (10W30 ?) for the street.
Dan Millen did the DFI tuning and he said this was a good base tune but he would go for the final tune on the chassis dyno once its in the car.
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Old 11-17-2003, 01:38 PM   #5
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And a few questions:

What would you guys recommend as a shift point for the motor as listed above?
Will be using a Tremec TKO and 3.73s. I'm not sure of the rpm drop off between shifts for the trans, but I was thinking about 61-6200rpm.

Motor was running with regular 20W50 (or other non-synthetic). How much will this pick up with 10W30 synthetic? I've heard 3-5%.

Cam:

Erik had noticed the valve float common to these hydraulic roller cams starting at about 6200rpm. I went with the hydraulic roller for the ease of maintenance as I just want this engine to be dead reliable for the next 2-3 years till I get out of medical school. I've noticed this rpm issue on a few hydr. builds, but is there any proven way to get these to turn the rpm for a 65-6700rpm shift point w/o float? Also, the cam has .547" lift with the 1.6 rockers. The heads flowed roughly 320/235, so how much would I benefit from using 1.7s? Either way, I think Ed has given me exactly what I had asked for, but I'll know more once its in the car.

Intake:

I expected the Victor EFI to hurt the peak HP, but I wanted to give it a try as I had the Victor 5.0 from a good deal when I planned on doing a 347 (just bought a 351 lower). Plus I wanted to experiment to see the results of this intake as I haven't seen many results with it, especially on strokers. On a side note, both Ed and Dan Millen thought it was a nice piece for an EFI motor, with the straight shot lower, fuel distribution, and street use.
Now, how much do you guys think it would help to (1) go with box-style upper (custom sheetmetal or Vortech Mondo-style box) on the Victor EFI base, (2) Victor Spyder, or (3) Super Victor Spyder?
Also, if I do have valve float at about 6200, would these manifold changes give much benefit w/o a cam swap?
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Old 11-17-2003, 01:40 PM   #6
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Greg: Yeah, more HP is always nice, but its right where I expected it, especially with the intake and rpm range.
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Old 11-17-2003, 01:47 PM   #7
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I did a set of Vic Jrs for a 408 sc car, and he turns his around 6,500. He has ran a 5.69@122, and a 8.89@152. He is using a ported gt-40 lower, with a box upper. I am making him a fully ported spyder intake as we speak. With the right spring pressure, you should easily be able to turn it 6,500. I think a spyder intake should be worth 50+hp, on your set up.

Later, Greg(XSR)
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Old 11-17-2003, 01:47 PM   #8
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Good power numbers for such a low rpm. I wouldn't be scared to raise the compression up to 11.5:1, even on pump gas. That along with the spyder intake would probably bump you up at least 40hp.
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Old 11-18-2003, 12:23 PM   #9
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Anyone know how to transfer the dyno graphs over here?
I have them saved as pdf files and never have learned how to make them work.

Greg: I was also thinking that I should be able to turn 6500 if I wanted to with a hydraulic roller. So why does it appear to have valve float around 6200? Ed set up the heads/springs to match the cam.

I would really like to do a (super victor) Spyder or a box upper after this season, but I'm not sure if it would help if its done around 62-6300.

-James
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Old 11-18-2003, 01:02 PM   #10
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Maybe Ed will chime in here.

What were the original goals for this motor?

I don't think your floating valves, I think the cam signs off around 6300. Those lift numbers coupled with 114 LSA is just not gonna rev high on a big 427. Sounds like a hell of a nitrous motor tho.
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Old 11-18-2003, 05:14 PM   #11
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The vic jr/super vic spyder intake would help greatly. Even with your low rpms, because of the size motor. If your springs have enough pressure to keep from floating, then the cam needs to be a little bigger. I have a solid roller, with more @.050 than you, and it signs off around 6,800. I only have 418 cu./in.'s, so I believe you need more cam, to turn it on up. I think for the future, I would go solid roller, and spyder intake. That should put you well over 600fwhp.

Good Luck, Greg(XSR)
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Old 11-18-2003, 06:12 PM   #12
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I have been speaking with Ed about cams and he told me a hydro roller will go to 8000RPM if you know what you are doing. If you want more I would personally go with the spyder and a large hydro roller. The 427 cubes is going to need all the air you can feed it!

Awesome numbers and it sounds like a very nice street combo!

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Old 02-19-2004, 04:50 PM   #13
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I want to turn 7000 rpm's with a hydraulic roller. Does anyone have any secrets to achieve this without valve float? I am running a 427 Track 1 heads fully ported, victor jr spyder intake, but I am going to replace the valve springs, valves, cam, lifters, and plan on shaft mount rockers t&d. I could use some advice on components to reach 7000 rpms with hydraulic roller.
thanks.
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Old 02-19-2004, 06:57 PM   #14
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light weight valves, retainers, rockers, and the right spring pressure..........Good Luck, Greg(XSR)
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Old 02-21-2004, 03:32 AM   #15
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rpms

You can make clean power with a hyd. roller to 8000 rpm and beyond,but like ed said but you got to have your $@#* together.On a hyd. roller you have to know your stuff about LOBE PROFILES to get these things to rev,but its a combonation of valve spring preasure,valvetrain wieght,rocker ratio and oil preasure issues.As far as the intake is concerned I would run a supervictor converted to EFI.That 4.00 stroke is sucking that victor 5.8s eyeballs out!!And the cam for that matter!
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Old 02-21-2004, 09:21 AM   #16
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i have yet to get any numbers for my motor but as i was installing the lower intake this last summer i was really not happy with the ports on the bottom of the lower...really wish i would of had them at least gasket matched....then i seen the new TFS box intake and wish it would of been out sooner
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Old 02-21-2004, 12:18 PM   #17
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I would think you would have more power then that too. Expessially with that large of a motor. I was thinking in the higher five hundreds.

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Old 02-21-2004, 04:35 PM   #18
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those are nice #

ppl, keep in mind its not tuned yet....can make a big difference
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Old 02-22-2004, 12:57 PM   #19
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Decent #'s, wouldnt a cam with a tighter lobe seperation have been better for a n/a motor? Just curious, far from a cam expert. I'm hoping for around 575-600fwhp out of mine, here's a quick combo break down:

69 block,418ci,tfs "R" heads out of box minus a little milling to get compression desired.,11.25:1,252/262@.05,110ls,.576/.576 lift,c&a zero gaps,super victor intake,1000 cfm demon, 1 7/8 kooks.
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Old 02-22-2004, 12:59 PM   #20
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FWIW, I went with the crane drop in style lifters, not the retrofit kit, crane claims they are good to 6500rpm, I would hope they are for $410
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