Oil filter mushroomed - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 05-13-2017, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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Oil filter mushroomed

I just put this engine together (It had recent rings but otherwise stock). I can tell you I don't know what oil pump it has etc. as the only thing I did to it when I got it was bolt on the heads and upper half. I have ran the engine at idle several times for a total of probably 15 minutes. I went to change the oil filter (which was new when I fired it up for the first time) and this is what I found.



It looks like pressure built up in the filter?

Car starts and runs fine, and sounds normal. Oil pressure (by stock gauge) is right in the middle.

Any idea what is going on? I JUST finished putting this together and hate the thought that it has to come back out.....

Chris


1990 "7 Up" Vert 5 lug, 4 wheel disc, new top and interior, GT40X Heads, Comp Cams XE264HR Cam
1991 LX Hatch. GT40X Heads, Crane Cam, GT 40 tubular intake, 5 lug, 4 wheel disc.
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post #2 of 31 Old 05-13-2017, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
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I looked where the filter goes on and there is a hole with nothing in it? Isn't this where the pressure relief valve goes? If yes, where can I get one and how does it install? Sorry about the questions, never dealt with this type of issue before.





Thanks

Chris


1990 "7 Up" Vert 5 lug, 4 wheel disc, new top and interior, GT40X Heads, Comp Cams XE264HR Cam
1991 LX Hatch. GT40X Heads, Crane Cam, GT 40 tubular intake, 5 lug, 4 wheel disc.
1993 SSP Royal Blue Coupe. Work in progress.
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post #3 of 31 Old 05-13-2017, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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Just pulled the filter off a block I have on an engine stand and it looks the same. Nothing in that hole. Bummer..

1990 "7 Up" Vert 5 lug, 4 wheel disc, new top and interior, GT40X Heads, Comp Cams XE264HR Cam
1991 LX Hatch. GT40X Heads, Crane Cam, GT 40 tubular intake, 5 lug, 4 wheel disc.
1993 SSP Royal Blue Coupe. Work in progress.
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post #4 of 31 Old 05-13-2017, 09:46 PM
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post #5 of 31 Old 05-13-2017, 11:19 PM
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Pressure relief valve , is in the oil pump
Engine will need to come back out , unless you want to fight it .
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post #6 of 31 Old 05-13-2017, 11:34 PM Thread Starter
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Anyone ever have a bad pressure relief valve in a brand new oil pump? The oil pump is brand new in this engine.

1990 "7 Up" Vert 5 lug, 4 wheel disc, new top and interior, GT40X Heads, Comp Cams XE264HR Cam
1991 LX Hatch. GT40X Heads, Crane Cam, GT 40 tubular intake, 5 lug, 4 wheel disc.
1993 SSP Royal Blue Coupe. Work in progress.
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post #7 of 31 Old 05-14-2017, 02:14 AM
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New light bulbs burn out.

Is it a Hi Volume pump?
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post #8 of 31 Old 05-14-2017, 02:26 AM Thread Starter
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I'm not sure. The guy I got the engine from gave it to me. He only said it was a new oil pump and it was not in it's original box. I know I took a chance, just the way it goes I guess. I got such a deal on everything I can't really be upset.

1990 "7 Up" Vert 5 lug, 4 wheel disc, new top and interior, GT40X Heads, Comp Cams XE264HR Cam
1991 LX Hatch. GT40X Heads, Crane Cam, GT 40 tubular intake, 5 lug, 4 wheel disc.
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post #9 of 31 Old 05-14-2017, 12:48 PM
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It won't matter if the pump is high volume or not. Volume is the capacity available, it not pressure.

The oil flow is determined by pressure unless the pump runs out of volume. If the pump runs out of volume pressure will not meet the relief pressure.

Your problem has to be too much pressure, and this comes entirely from the relief valve in the pump. If the relief valve is set too high or if it is stuck shut, it will blow the oil filter up. The relief pressure is the only thing that can cause that.

Look at the bypass spring and plunger in the pump. I had an engine blow the filter apart because of a little burr on the plunger in the relief (bypass) system.


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post #10 of 31 Old 05-14-2017, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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Good information Tom. I appreciate it. With a mechanical gauge hooked up will I be able to tell just by the pressure number that the pressure is too high? Will the pressure be a constant overly high number or is this something that will spike all of a sudden?


1990 "7 Up" Vert 5 lug, 4 wheel disc, new top and interior, GT40X Heads, Comp Cams XE264HR Cam
1991 LX Hatch. GT40X Heads, Crane Cam, GT 40 tubular intake, 5 lug, 4 wheel disc.
1993 SSP Royal Blue Coupe. Work in progress.
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post #11 of 31 Old 05-14-2017, 03:08 PM
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It won't matter if the pump is high volume or not. Volume is the capacity available, it not pressure.

The oil flow is determined by pressure unless the pump runs out of volume. If the pump runs out of volume pressure will not meet the relief pressure.

Your problem has to be too much pressure, and this comes entirely from the relief valve in the pump. If the relief valve is set too high or if it is stuck shut, it will blow the oil filter up. The relief pressure is the only thing that can cause that.

Look at the bypass spring and plunger in the pump. I had an engine blow the filter apart because of a little burr on the plunger in the relief (bypass) system.

I asked becasue I've had several that would blow the filter off the motor when cold (years ago). It obviously wasn't the volume, but never had the problem with a standard volume.
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post #12 of 31 Old 05-14-2017, 08:30 PM
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could have been a defective filter, last motorcraft filter i got had no threads cut to screw it on. id try a new filter.
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post #13 of 31 Old 05-14-2017, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, I'm going to put on a gauge and I have a new filter on now. Will check out the pressure while it is running. I would have thought with that much pressure something else would have given...like oil out the dipstick or the rubber seal around the filter? Anyway, I have almost zero in this engine, and I have a .30 over shortblock on an engine stand in my garage so it will work out one way or another.
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post #14 of 31 Old 05-14-2017, 08:46 PM
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Yeah, I'm going to put on a gauge and I have a new filter on now. Will check out the pressure while it is running. I would have thought with that much pressure something else would have given...like oil out the dipstick or the rubber seal around the filter? Anyway, I have almost zero in this engine, and I have a .30 over shortblock on an engine stand in my garage so it will work out one way or another.
Oil pressure does not push on the dipstick. The dipstick is in the crankcase, not the oil passages. Too much pressure is toughest on the oil filter, and it usually mushrooms the filter. The filter case is the weak point. Nothing else except too much pressure will do that.

Another weak point are any pressed in plugs (freeze plugs) in the oil galleys.

Never start a new engine without an oil pressure gauge.


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post #15 of 31 Old 05-14-2017, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Tom. It has the factory oil pressure gauge which was working properly. I am going to put on an actual gauge. Also, I primed the oil by hand with a drill through the distributor hole before starting the engine.

1990 "7 Up" Vert 5 lug, 4 wheel disc, new top and interior, GT40X Heads, Comp Cams XE264HR Cam
1991 LX Hatch. GT40X Heads, Crane Cam, GT 40 tubular intake, 5 lug, 4 wheel disc.
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post #16 of 31 Old 05-15-2017, 07:59 AM
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Sounds like the oil pump/pressure relief is the culprit. In that case it's not a big deal to drop the pan/change the pump with the engine in the car, I've unfortunately done it twice.
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post #17 of 31 Old 05-15-2017, 08:02 AM Thread Starter
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I do like your confidence in it not being a big deal haha. I'm just bummed that I have to deal with this when a brand new oil pump was installed a few weeks ago. This shouldn't be happening but oh well.

1990 "7 Up" Vert 5 lug, 4 wheel disc, new top and interior, GT40X Heads, Comp Cams XE264HR Cam
1991 LX Hatch. GT40X Heads, Crane Cam, GT 40 tubular intake, 5 lug, 4 wheel disc.
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post #18 of 31 Old 05-15-2017, 05:17 PM
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Anyone ever have a bad pressure relief valve in a brand new oil pump? The oil pump is brand new in this engine.
Yes. My dad had this happen with an M83 Melling pump. Had no more than 10 minutes run time on it. Relief stuck, ballooned the filter, began to pee oil out and got under the tires at the drag strip, caused it to veer hard right and went over. Destroyed the car.

he's had new pumps stick like that several times, a couple were M68HV's. The engine was installed in a Fairmont Futura, same front end as a fox body (actually it had a fox K-member in it), removing the pan was nearly impossible with the engine in the car. We did try it one night after the races so we could make the races the next day but we ended up removing the engine from the car to get better access.

WTT my '92 GT for a nice clean '91-'93 2.3/T5 hatch or coupe.
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post #19 of 31 Old 05-18-2017, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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Got my gauge hooked up. On cold startup oil pressure is between 55 and 60. I can't let it run too long because it's on Jack stands in the garage. Is this an acceptable pressure for cold startup and idle? Once I get the car back on the ground I can get it outside and let it run to operating temps and let you know what it looks like.

Chris

1990 "7 Up" Vert 5 lug, 4 wheel disc, new top and interior, GT40X Heads, Comp Cams XE264HR Cam
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post #20 of 31 Old 05-18-2017, 06:01 PM
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55 to 60 psi is fine as long as it doesn't climb over say 90 with a little rpm. It that at idle only or does it stay at 60 when you rev it? At whatever pressure it stays at with increasing rpm is what the pressure relief is set too. I have a M68HV and it doesn't climb above 60 cold.
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post #21 of 31 Old 05-18-2017, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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When it settled at idle 850 ish rpm it was at about 55. When I increased idle to about 3k it then went to about 60-63.

1990 "7 Up" Vert 5 lug, 4 wheel disc, new top and interior, GT40X Heads, Comp Cams XE264HR Cam
1991 LX Hatch. GT40X Heads, Crane Cam, GT 40 tubular intake, 5 lug, 4 wheel disc.
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post #22 of 31 Old 05-19-2017, 10:53 PM
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Those pressures are reasonable. What weight oil?
I've seen 60PSI with my drill in a fresh engine more than once.

Hey, can I come hang out at your house sometime?

'88 LX hatch. Full MM suspension minus the Torque Arm, Cobra Brakes. Not as slow as it used to be.
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post #23 of 31 Old 05-19-2017, 10:55 PM Thread Starter
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10w30.

1990 "7 Up" Vert 5 lug, 4 wheel disc, new top and interior, GT40X Heads, Comp Cams XE264HR Cam
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post #24 of 31 Old 05-19-2017, 11:29 PM Thread Starter
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My house is always available for a mustang guy to hang out at.

1990 "7 Up" Vert 5 lug, 4 wheel disc, new top and interior, GT40X Heads, Comp Cams XE264HR Cam
1991 LX Hatch. GT40X Heads, Crane Cam, GT 40 tubular intake, 5 lug, 4 wheel disc.
1993 SSP Royal Blue Coupe. Work in progress.
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post #25 of 31 Old 05-21-2017, 10:47 PM
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My house is always available for a mustang guy to hang out at.
Seriously? I might need a vacation...

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'84 LTD LX - 9.83 at 140.09. Whippled 365 SBF with a glide and 3.08 gears. Driven to and from the track 60 miles without even changing tire pressure.
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post #26 of 31 Old 05-22-2017, 01:46 AM Thread Starter
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Hang out....not b&b

1990 "7 Up" Vert 5 lug, 4 wheel disc, new top and interior, GT40X Heads, Comp Cams XE264HR Cam
1991 LX Hatch. GT40X Heads, Crane Cam, GT 40 tubular intake, 5 lug, 4 wheel disc.
1993 SSP Royal Blue Coupe. Work in progress.
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post #27 of 31 Old 05-22-2017, 02:17 AM
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When it settled at idle 850 ish rpm it was at about 55. When I increased idle to about 3k it then went to about 60-63.
That oil pressure is fine. It takes a lot more than that to balloon an oil filter. I've had that happen a couple of times over the years with new pumps and it always pegged out a 100psi mechanical gauge. Apparently the relief valve is working properly now. It's anybody's guess if it will do it again.
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post #28 of 31 Old 05-23-2017, 11:51 PM
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Hang out....not b&b
Lol. How many fox mustangs are on the island?

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'84 LTD LX - 9.83 at 140.09. Whippled 365 SBF with a glide and 3.08 gears. Driven to and from the track 60 miles without even changing tire pressure.
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post #29 of 31 Old 05-24-2017, 05:03 AM Thread Starter
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Not sure? I know of 20 or 30 personally. I have 3 myself. The market here for fox mustangs is sooooooft........most kids here into imports. It's mostly us "old" guys with foxbodies. I have seen nice original coupes sit on craigslist here at $3000 for a long time. My 16 year old daughter has a 91 hatch, 5 speed, cam, heads, 5 lug, 4 wheel discs that I built for her....lucky kid! Point being most kids think it's just some old car because it's not a civic......

1990 "7 Up" Vert 5 lug, 4 wheel disc, new top and interior, GT40X Heads, Comp Cams XE264HR Cam
1991 LX Hatch. GT40X Heads, Crane Cam, GT 40 tubular intake, 5 lug, 4 wheel disc.
1993 SSP Royal Blue Coupe. Work in progress.
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post #30 of 31 Old 05-24-2017, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
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Not sure? I know of 20 or 30 personally. I have 3 myself. The market here for fox mustangs is sooooooft........most kids here into imports. It's mostly us "old" guys with foxbodies. I have seen nice original coupes sit on craigslist here at $3000 for a long time. My 16 year old daughter has a 91 hatch, 5 speed, cam, heads, 5 lug, 4 wheel discs that I built for her....lucky kid! Point being most kids think it's just some old car because it's not a civic......
"Lucky kid" indeed! My kid rolled through high school in a '98 Ranger 4-banger stick. He got to drive the '88 hatch on a couple of special occasions and that was it!

I did notice a drag strip outside of Hilo when we were on the Big Island a few years ago. I'll bet your shipping from Summit ain't free...

What's the latest on your oil pressure situation?

'88 LX hatch. Full MM suspension minus the Torque Arm, Cobra Brakes. Not as slow as it used to be.
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post #31 of 31 Old 05-24-2017, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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Oil pressure seems ok. Have not had any more issues yet....but I'm still nervous. Oahu has no drag strip which sucks. Haven't for over 10-12 years. Shipping, omg...dont get me started! Sometimes shipping is more than the actual part! I always laugh at the guys who sell little things like lug nuts or a shift knob and they say "lower 48 only! Dude, USPS flat rate is the same here as it is to Maine, or New York. It's like we have a fricken disease or something. It really irritates me.

1990 "7 Up" Vert 5 lug, 4 wheel disc, new top and interior, GT40X Heads, Comp Cams XE264HR Cam
1991 LX Hatch. GT40X Heads, Crane Cam, GT 40 tubular intake, 5 lug, 4 wheel disc.
1993 SSP Royal Blue Coupe. Work in progress.
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