351w splayed main caps. Milodon 11420 - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 04-13-2017, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
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351w splayed main caps. Milodon 11420

School me on these things people. Not really the caps so much, but the machine work part. I assume it will have to be line bored not just line honed. What does that do as far as main bearing options? Does it affect timing chain slack? Nothing wrong with my block currently (not that I'm aware of anyway), just looking to maybe upgrade when I freshen things up. Would love a dart block or a boss block, but funds won't allow it currently.

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post #2 of 20 Old 04-13-2017, 10:20 AM
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If you do a ton of machine work prior to mating the caps to the block, it can be honed rather than bored. But it requires some serious mill time, by far the easiest route is to have it align bored. The newer CNC boring machines are so accurate that you don't need to hone them after the boring is done (we had a RB440 Chrysler done like that, using steel Milodon caps).

We do quite a few Supra blocks this way, because the regular vertical machining center heads won't fit between the main caps on the 2J blocks. The smaller belt-driven heads will fit, but they're like $11,000. We'll live with doing it this way, lol.

You should be able to keep a standard bearing size, as the housing bore shouldn't change that much. Same goes with the timing chain. Companies make chain sets that are .005" (and sometimes more) shorter to take up the slack, but again, with CNC align boring, it may not be necessary.


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post #3 of 20 Old 04-13-2017, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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If you do a ton of machine work prior to mating the caps to the block, it can be honed rather than bored. But it requires some serious mill time, by far the easiest route is to have it align bored. The newer CNC boring machines are so accurate that you don't need to hone them after the boring is done (we had a RB440 Chrysler done like that, using steel Milodon caps).

We do quite a few Supra blocks this way, because the regular vertical machining center heads won't fit between the main caps on the 2J blocks. The smaller belt-driven heads will fit, but they're like $11,000. We'll live with doing it this way, lol.

You should be able to keep a standard bearing size, as the housing bore shouldn't change that much. Same goes with the timing chain. Companies make chain sets that are .005" (and sometimes more) shorter to take up the slack, but again, with CNC align boring, it may not be necessary.
Thanks for the information. That answered pretty much everything I need to know. Since you've used the milodon caps in other applications, what's your opinion of them?
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post #4 of 20 Old 04-13-2017, 10:58 AM
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I would not spend the money on a stock block to get this done.Take what your gonna spend and then save up the rest and get you a good block.

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post #5 of 20 Old 04-13-2017, 11:01 AM
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With so much inventory in the market place in regards to blocks putting 4 bolt mains on a stock block that is dead at 4.060 bore is just crazy imo. I have done piles of 600-900 hp bone stock windosr blocks with turbos and main studs with no issue. If you are approaching 700+ you should be moving into a dart anyways. Unless the caps are dirt cheap, you will end up spending close to a grand to do this correctly. Thats madness.
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post #6 of 20 Old 04-13-2017, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Wow $1k to for the caps and machine work, I'm out on that. Was thinking 5-6 hundred tops. 1k is half way to an unmachined dart or boss.
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post #7 of 20 Old 04-13-2017, 11:14 AM
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Thanks for the information. That answered pretty much everything I need to know. Since you've used the milodon caps in other applications, what's your opinion of them?
They're pretty nice. I don't remember if we needed to clearance anything on the sides so they'd fit in the block registers, but they seem to work well. The owner has started the car, but hasn't really beaten on it quite yet.

That being said, both @nastynotchback1 and @strokeme are right. The amount of money you'll be putting down for this project, you're pretty close to SHP territory. The housing bores are only part of it, the block would still need to be drilled and tapped for the splayed bolts. It adds up quick.

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Wow $1k to for the caps and machine work, I'm out on that. Was thinking 5-6 hundred tops. 1k is half way to an unmachined dart or boss.
5-600, afraid not. The caps alone are right around 300, looks like.

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post #8 of 20 Old 04-13-2017, 04:06 PM
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I would not spend the money on a stock block to get this done.Take what your gonna spend and then save up the rest and get you a good block.

my engine builder told me the same thing... said just save the money towards the dart block build

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post #9 of 20 Old 04-13-2017, 07:46 PM
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Wow $1k to for the caps and machine work, I'm out on that. Was thinking 5-6 hundred tops. 1k is half way to an unmachined dart or boss.

friend here is getting this Done Right Now using SM billet caps on an early W block cast/designed for using the 4 bolt caps, 5-6 hun is what it Should cost you, we found the bigger issue Here was finding the right shop that dont make a bigger deal/issue out of doing it than it really is.

stay away from the milodon caps, there are Better and Cheaper billet steel cap options out there...

>351 billet main caps | eBay<


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I have done piles of 600-900 hp bone stock windosr blocks with turbos and main studs with no issue. If you are approaching 700+ you should be moving into a dart anyways.
you need to be More Clear continually posting this HP garbage all the time...

FACT, the stock 2 bolt cast iron caps are GARBAGE and have ALWAYS had more issues with fretting, moving, flexing, walking.

FACT, 600-900 hp bone stock cast main cap windosr blocks WILL have fretting/moving/flexing/walking issues in Any drag/circle/road race app.

the only app you can only for a while get away with over powering inferior 2 bolt cast iron caps is in >drag racing< as eng is only at full power for a few seconds at a time, put it in Any Real Race app (circle, road race) and you wont be so lucky >tick tock tick tock<...

>351w-machine-price-question<

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post #10 of 20 Old 04-13-2017, 08:28 PM
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An ill-fitting billet steel main cap can also be susceptible to moving and walking. Material doesn't matter.

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post #11 of 20 Old 04-13-2017, 08:36 PM
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Material doesn't matter.
man there is some bad info on this site...

>>>IRON/STEEL MAIN CAP INFO<<<

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post #12 of 20 Old 04-13-2017, 09:21 PM
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man there is some bad info on this site...

>>>IRON/STEEL MAIN CAP INFO<<<
I love how every link you provide just leads right back to your own posts.

Cap material isn't going to matter to prevent them from moving around. How they FIT in the block is what does that. Fitting billet caps into a motor, you typically need to machine the caps to get them to fit. We certainly do when fitting billet caps to factory 2J blocks. Knurling the edges of a cast cap would probably net you the same thing, right up until the cap itself fails and cracks.
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post #13 of 20 Old 04-13-2017, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
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I would not spend the money on a stock block to get this done.Take what your gonna spend and then save up the rest and get you a good block.
What he said.
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post #14 of 20 Old 04-13-2017, 09:38 PM
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I love how every link you provide just leads right back to your own posts.

Cap material isn't going to matter to prevent them from moving around. How they FIT in the block is what does that. Fitting billet caps into a motor, you typically need to machine the caps to get them to fit. We certainly do when fitting billet caps to factory 2J blocks. Knurling the edges of a cast cap would probably net you the same thing, right up until the cap itself fails and cracks.
LOL how many links/examples would you like ...

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post #15 of 20 Old 04-14-2017, 01:14 AM
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LOL how many links/examples would you like ...

>>> 70s 351 cobra jet <<<
You're making my case for me. Just more links to more of your own posts, of other people's problems. I'd say you have an amazing collection of these, but you seem to post the same ones over and over again.

I especially like the one you just linked to, where you quote a guy who says he has a 408, then you make fun of him for using a stock crank and stock rods. I'd be curious to know what combination of parts in a 408 uses a stock crank and stock rods. On a f--king Cleveland of all things, not even on the same series motor.
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post #16 of 20 Old 04-14-2017, 08:05 PM
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???... come on man lol

some here must really have comprehension problems

try Reading the f,n thread, that quoted poster/dummy was taking about his buddys 1000+HP STOCK ROD & BOLT 2 bolt cast iron cap W eng.

i guess the old pos windsor blocks are like the old pos cleveland blocks now too? lol, (every year that goes by there holding more and more hp)

guess those of us buying aftermarket 4 bolt billet steel cap blocks are the real big f'n idiots here eh

for believing the block manufacturers info when we could of just got some 2 bolt crap $100 junk yard blocks for our 1000+hp builds instead.

to much here

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post #17 of 20 Old 04-17-2017, 09:32 PM
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I can see now why most everyone here ignores you. Point to useless information and change the direction of the thread when it doesn't go your way. Funny thing, I actually had somebody PM me and tell me not to bother with you. Ah well, lesson learned.

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post #18 of 20 Old 04-18-2017, 08:21 PM
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your acting like Schizo mopar moron AL, whats with the personal attacks? lol

theres NO rocket science needed with this subject

FACT, >Billet Steel< is superior in strength to Cast Iron in every way.

.........................

& the PM-ing low lifers here that should be ignored are the all to many
Deceitful/Lying internet sales men/dart dealers & there fanboys pumping/pushing there Cracking Dart Block Shat onto hobbyists.

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post #19 of 20 Old 04-19-2017, 02:39 PM
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No personal attacks, sorry to burst your imaginary bubble.

Nobody here is debating that billet steel is stronger than cast. As I've said multiple times, we install billet caps on blocks ourselves.

The point I'm trying to make, since the 13th, is that if it's installed INCORRECTLY, it's as susceptible to walk just as much as a cast cap is. Because interference fit is a thing. But if you'd like to blithely keep ignoring that fact, by all means, go ahead. I'm checking out of this train wreck.


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post #20 of 20 Old 04-20-2017, 04:44 PM
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theres more to it than just the little .002" interference fit that you keep crying about like a 12yr old girl.

FACT, when most all weaker cast iron caps Fail, they crack/break in saddle area inbetween the main bolts Because of the weaker inferior
IRON CAPS FLEXING (made worse by stroker cranks & short rod ratios) contributing to the weaker inferior iron cap fretting/walking/galling
this is where the greatest cap stress is and where the superior >Billet Steel Main Cap< wont flex/crack/break.

theres hundreds of threads on forums showing this problem with inferior Cast Iron main caps with tight interference AND even doweled caps STILL flexing/cracking/breaking...

so the >"Material"< does matter.

btw your foreign born muslim gangsta prez obuma can stick that mic up his sphincter

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