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Old 10-26-2012, 09:02 PM   #1
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Dyno'd 347 today. Graph inside.

Found a dynojet only 3.5 miles by my house and took my new build to see what it was putting out.

4 Foxbody Builds at Once!

Car had 3.7 miles on it when I got to the dyno with no WOT time so I had my fingers crossed.

This car was built to be a daily driver for my wife and thus had to idle well and have no bucking issues. Max HP was NOT the goal but I did want it to be sporty. On the drive there I had it in 5th gear at 1000rpm and no bucking so I was happy with that.

Overall I am happy with the numbers (360 HP and 385 TQ) so I am not looking to do any big changes but I would rather see HP equal to torque. I am guessing the restrictions from achieving this are on the intake side which include:

70 mm TB
76mm MAF
11.8 : 1 AFR
Stock air box

I was thinking of going to:

75mm TB
80mm MAF
Anderson Powerpipe
1.7 RR

What I am wondering is how much of a difference do you think the first three would make and then how much more adding 1.7s.

Also, how much do you think is available in the tune. Timing was 13 deg spout out and AFR logged at 11.8:1 so there is definitely some easy HP on the table by leaning it out.

Here's the combo;

cam with .512 int .536 exh
Freshened1968 302 (C80E) bored .060 over with 347 stroker kit equals 352 cubic inch.
Eagle I beam forged rods, Forged crank 28oz balance, forged SRP pistons
10.8:1 compression
Edelbrock vic jr 60cc heads ported to a 1262 with ARP head studs and FelPro 1011-1 head gaskets
7 quart oil pan
Comp Cams Link bar lifters
Professional Products SFI balancer and spacer
Holley systemax intake plenum
70mm throttle body/spacer
30# injectors
80mm C&L MAF
long tubes headers to flowmaster (no cats)

The weird dip at low RPM is the run when I disconnected the stock airbox and put on a conical filter. The C&L did not like that as it went from 11.8 with the stock box to 14.3 AFR and was really lean (17 -18 AFR) in that area. Guessing airflow disturbance.
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:15 PM   #2
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Congrats! Those are some good numbers with that lil cam I woulda thought that thing being stroked out woulda swallowed it up. A friend of mine changed his t/b from a 80mm to 90mm and saw 7hp on the dyno. Also the t/b opening on the systemax is I believe only 70mm so you might have to port it.

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Old 10-26-2012, 10:55 PM   #3
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I do like the 350rwtq from 2800-5300 rpm
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:38 AM   #4
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Have you thought about a differant muffler also?
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Old 10-27-2012, 01:10 AM   #5
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Your numbers are on the higher end... also the 352ci does make a difference when compared to say a 331/347 0 to 30 over. Changing the muffs are not worth the gain if any at your level imo. Flows FTW
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Old 10-27-2012, 01:30 AM   #6
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IMO, cam is way too small. 1.7's r not the answer. the list u consided looks good except for the 1.7's.

u should be over 400rwhp with 10.8:1 CR and the Vic's, the holley and a .575 lift, 230/240 duration, 108LC cam. this cam profile is very similar to a comp cam XE282HR.

and how do the Vic Jr's ports mate up with the holley ports?
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Old 10-27-2012, 07:56 AM   #7
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Never seen a 347 not make it to 6k rpms that wasn't in a rock crawler..
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:17 AM   #8
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if you are going with a 4" AFM powerpipe, find yourself an ACCUFAB 75mm "RACE" throttle body. it is 90mm @ the opening and 75mm at the blade, thats what i have and it worked out nicely. also im seeing "76mm" and "80mm" MAF, if those are the sizes of the C&L meters you are using STOP! find a proM or SCT big air 2400/2600 MAF(95mm), your tuner will thank you for it...... your car will probably run alot better as well. C&L mafs are junk, unless you plan on keeping the stock airbox on it.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sradtodrag View Post
Never seen a 347 not make it to 6k rpms that wasn't in a rock crawler..

agreed. im running small TW170s and a comp 282 and it is on the 6k msd chip with ease.
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmax5o View Post
I do like the 350rwtq from 2800-5300rpm
Me too.
360/385 are solid numbers for what's a fairly mild 352 combo.
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:31 AM   #11
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decent numbers great torque curve, this combo with a cam like xe274hr would have put down better numbers and still streetable too
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:45 PM   #12
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Those are good numbers for a mild combo. What is the duration on the cam? I would definitely swap to a 75mm tb, 80mm pro-m mass air because the c&l is junk and hard to tune, and I would also get the 4" power pipe at the least. Get all that and then get it tuned and see where it is at.
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Old 10-27-2012, 02:18 PM   #13
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I believe going to a 1.6 rocker will help stabilize your break up at the top of your curve.
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:33 AM   #14
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Thanks for the replies. I don't know the duration of the cam. Came out of another motor of mine and the numbers from the electric pencil were unreadable so I can't get all the specs from Crane.

I am aware I could have gotten a lot more HP w/ a big cam. That wasn't my goal with this car. I am not looking to make any big changes to this combo. I just thought it odd the HP was less than Torque and thought it must be a restriction from the TB to filter.

I have a few 75mm TB and MAFs sitting around so I think I'll make my own CAI just to see.

I also have a Hogan Upper w/ a 85mm opening I might throw on just for fun but it's eventually going on my Twin turbo coupe.

I was curious if folks agreed the TB to filter was a restriction on this particular combo looking at the dyno.
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:35 AM   #15
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It currently has 1.6 rockers. My thought was aswitch to 1.7 might gain another 15hp with the same manners.
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87FOX50 View Post
if you are going with a 4" AFM powerpipe, find yourself an ACCUFAB 75mm "RACE" throttle body. it is 90mm @ the opening and 75mm at the blade, thats what i have and it worked out nicely. also im seeing "76mm" and "80mm" MAF, if those are the sizes of the C&L meters you are using STOP! find a proM or SCT big air 2400/2600 MAF(95mm), your tuner will thank you for it...... your car will probably run alot better as well. C&L mafs are junk, unless you plan on keeping the stock airbox on it.
That's the way to go^^
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
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agreed. im running small TW170s and a comp 282 and it is on the 6k msd chip with ease.
Lets race, my 302 vs your 347 ;-)
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Thanks for the replies. I don't know the duration of the cam. Came out of another motor of mine and the numbers from the electric pencil were unreadable so I can't get all the specs from Crane.

I am aware I could have gotten a lot more HP w/ a big cam. That wasn't my goal with this car.......
There is no good reason you dont know your cam specs. Do you own a degree wheel and a dial indicator? If not, you need to put that on your list. Degree wheel from Summit/Jegs and a dial indicator from HF or wherever and you won't build blind again. The cam specs are the most important piece of info you need for intelligent future mod decisions to any custom engine. This was a "dot to dot" install as well right? Even tolerance stacking can swing your RPMs a few hundred rpms. A quickie build may have been the goal, but now you want analysis. All you are going to get is wild guesses. So here is mine....

The pre-intake induction changes you are contemplating are worth a try, and probably the only simple changes that "may" wake the thing up on the top end.
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:42 PM   #19
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Gilroy, sounds good let's race. We'll start from a roll at 60 up to 110 in fourth gear only.
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Old 10-28-2012, 01:30 PM   #20
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You'll kill me!
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Old 10-28-2012, 01:36 PM   #21
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If you're talking top end only changes that you can make without cracking it back open, I say go for the 1.7's if you know or check that you have ample PTV clearance. You'll add some lift and even a tiny bit of duration, which can't hurt a motor that big. That cam is on the smallish side (imo) for a 302, so it is really tamed down by 352 cubes. Also, did you check the port match on the exhaust side? I haven't had mine to a dyno, but with procomp 210 heads and bbk equal length shorties, I had a major mismatch. It ran 8.91 in the 8th. I finally saved up for some bbk 1 3/4 longtubes and offroad H and it ran 8.51 with only minor tuning to the afr. I bet now I could run in the low 8.30's. If you've got vic jr's and 1 5/8 longtubes, that could be a factor.
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Old 10-28-2012, 01:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Gilroy, sounds good let's race. We'll start from a roll at 60 up to 110 in fourth gear only.


LOL, but be warned. Gilroy might just change out his diff gears and do a road trip just to wup yur azz. Make the bet good enough and I'll sponsor him
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Old 10-28-2012, 02:52 PM   #23
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But he'd have to shift and then lose! Notice I put mph and the gear in the race
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Old 10-28-2012, 02:59 PM   #24
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It currently has 1.6 rockers. My thought was aswitch to 1.7 might gain another 15hp with the same manners.
I believe you'll break up earlier in the rpm band.
Most "dyno's" have a software driven distortion buffer which makes your graph lines smoother.
In your case, I believe going to 1.7rr will overwork your springs, increase heat, and your valvetrain will take a beating.
I really don't think you'll gain performance at the track until you address why the engine is breaking up at the top.
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:21 PM   #25
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Interesting. I didn't notice any breaking up in the high end. Ran and sounded pretty smooth. The Edelbrock Vic Jrs are good to .650 lift and I'm at .512 with a lot of PTV clearance. (about 5mm)

Not sure I want to do that anyway, was just curious as to what gains I would see. From Vic Jr flow charts it looks like the extra lift would result in about 7-8 cfm as valve lift would increase from .512 to .544
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Old 10-28-2012, 04:33 PM   #26
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Interesting. I didn't notice any breaking up in the high end. Ran and sounded pretty smooth. The Edelbrock Vic Jrs are good to .650 lift and I'm at .512 with a lot of PTV clearance. (about 5mm)

Not sure I want to do that anyway, was just curious as to what gains I would see. From Vic Jr flow charts it looks like the extra lift would result in about 7-8 cfm as valve lift would increase from .512 to .544
What is your coil to coil measurement to coil bind on the "nose"?
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:02 PM   #27
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New Dyno Numbers

Made a few changes and another trip to the dyno. At only $40 for 3 pulls who can resist.

Changes:

Added FPR
70 to 75mm TB
1.6 to 1.72 RR
77mm Pro M with pipe and filter

These changes cost me nothing except 4 hours. Got good deals on here and CL and sold the old stuff.

Today was 11 deg warmer with lower humidity. I think the addition of the FPR made the biggest difference out of everything.

There are 4 graphs. The lowest at 355 rwhp was the previous dyno session.
On the first pull the HP/TQ were down slightly everywhere until the peak where it gained around 5 hp. The AFR was better, up from the low 11 range to mid 12 range.

The next two I pulled some fuel pressure. By the last pull I hit my 13.0 target at the peak torque and it went slightly richer from there. The big dip in the low 3000rpm range is where the car is going to WOT and AFR comes down from the 14 range to 13 then below and back up to 13. Obviously 13:1 is a good place for it but without a tune to get it there across the curve this is pretty good.

While driveability was great with the C&L, the Pro M was even better. On the 3.5 mile drive home I had it in 5th at idle and it just chugged along with no bucking. Idle is rock solid at 800rpm. This is going to be a great street car with a lot of torque.

The second pic is last dyno versus this dyno. Pretty good torque gains all around.
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[U][B]White 89 LX conv forged 408 10.5 CR AFR 205s FTI cam TFS R, Griggs front & MM rear suspension, TKO600, Cobra Brakes, 18x9 and 18x10 w NT05, custom leather Saleen flofits [B][U]89 Red Notch- BOSS 331, TDC twin turbo, 04 IRS, TKO 600, 06 18" Blades, 04 Cobra brakes, Mach 1 interior under construction...91 GT 347 Dart Big Bore, YSI , Viper T56, full MM suspension, ...90 Hatch SA10 clone, 352 11:1, tubular front suspension w/ Lakewood coilovers, Tremec 3550, AFM Hi Rev clutch
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:19 AM   #28
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13.1 seems a little to lean to me at WOT. We usually tune for 12.5-12.8 at WOT. I guess if that is where it likes to make the power then so be it.

Nice numbers, I'm impressed!
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:38 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by dmax5o View Post
Made a few changes and another trip to the dyno. At only $40 for 3 pulls who can resist.

Changes:

Added FPR
70 to 75mm TB
1.6 to 1.72 RR
77mm Pro M with pipe and filter

These changes cost me nothing except 4 hours. Got good deals on here and CL and sold the old stuff.
You went from 355/385 to 370/395 so that's a great result, and having at least 350rwtq from 2800-5500rpm is the icing on the cake. Should be a lot of fun driving on the street.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:57 AM   #30
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This first one is funny. This shop does imports so maybe they do 3rd gear pulls, but he hits it in 3rd gear and the car spins em. The video doesn't show it but he gets out with a surprised look and asks if it was peeling out. I said yeah, you have to do the runs in 4th gear.





This one is the last pull.


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Old 12-11-2012, 10:57 AM   #31
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The small changes you made made a positive improvement which is great. I love the torque curve. I am seriously contemplating changing out my Victor 5.0 for a Systemax II. I am running an automatic and would really benefit from the "fat" torque curve.

Congratulations on your sweet street motor!
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:41 PM   #32
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curious, did you do anymore work to the victor jr heads other than gasket matching? any port/polish work on the systemax intake? i have a 347 along with those same heads and intake. was wanting to put together a good street combo that would make around 400/400
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