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Old 03-09-2011, 09:54 PM   #1
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HO vs gt40 intake @low rpm, any difference?

Hi!

The HO intake is $25 at the scrapyard and readily available.
The gt40 intake is also $25, but is not so readily available: they vanish quick.

I can however buy them at $100-$140 on craigslist.

About the highest I EVER rev the engine is 3500 rpm, which is going 70mph in 3rd gear to pass someone on the highway before going back to overdrive, if the calculator I used was truthful.
So I really don't give a damn about 5000rpm performance.

For my $100+, will I notice any difference between the stock HO and the gt40 intake?
If not, I'll leave it stock HO.

My starting point is actually a panther body with the lopo engine, stock 150hp :-( Anything is an improvement.
I'm building an engine with gt40 heads, the HO camshaft, replacing the 2" y-pipe with 2.25" dual exhaust and 2nd hand mac shorties, and just generally cleaning and replacing everything to rebuild this engine. Might mildly port out the heads.
So my question is if at ~2000 rpm, is it worth the money for the gt40 intake? If the higher flow capabilities are only taken advantage of and noticed at higher rpms, then I can always wait.
A professor at my votech school told me I might actually want the HO intake, that the gt40 intake could even hurt low end torque a little?




A nearly identical question, in essence, is whether I want to bother with a cold air intake. Some people have even said they ran worse with them. But it's a popular upgrade it seems, not least because it's so easy and inexpensive compared to digging out a camshaft let alone stroking the bottom end of an engine.
But if a cold air intake (OK, inlet technically) again will only be noticeable when really revving the engine... I might save my $85 there.


thanks for the advice!
-Bernard
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:43 PM   #2
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The H.O lowers are the same as a lopo, just get yourself a H.O upper and flip it around. Then later on if you need more out of your intake just port the H.O.

Also I would take the time to use a bigger TB as well.

As far as the CAI thats a toss up, see how your funds go first.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:02 PM   #3
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would you spend $140 on the (1996 w/ egr) explorer intake, upper lower & TB? Will I notice an improvement, and, any improvement at all at 2000rpm to be worth the money? I know I know, agonizing over $140, hahaha. But if there's a benefit even at low rpm, I ought to take advantage of it now, and if there's no benefit, then I can use that $140 towards the paint job I'm *also* saving up for very soon.

Yeah, that's kindof how I feel about the cold air intake-- I can really do it at any time, with no time spent at all. Lots of the money for this build is just going into stock replacements, like all the gaskets, bearings, oil pump, pickup screen, a smog pump pipe that rusted through, front seal for the transmission, new headers, all these things that are easy to do while the engine is torn down and which I'll probably never take out again in the lifetime of this car. The cold air intake, is right there in the engine bay with nothing in the way of it :-)
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Old 03-10-2011, 11:39 AM   #4
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If you are seriously not going to rev this motor above 3500rpm then I'd suggest staying with the stock intake, guys that have swapped the Explorer setup on truck motors report a loss of low end Tq, but you should also use something other than the HO cam because it really doesn't come to life until above 2000rpm. The F4TE truck cam(used in all '94+ truck engines) or maybe something like the Comp 35-512-8 would be better choices IMO.
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Old 03-10-2011, 11:54 AM   #5
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Dont bother with any upgrades. You are throwing money away given your current 3500 goal. You should look at a diesel. They love to build huge torqe @~3k.
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:10 PM   #6
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I would just stick with the HO intake based on your goals.

As far as a cold air, you would do just as well with the stock airbox, and a K&N Panel filter.
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Old 03-10-2011, 01:08 PM   #7
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If they're both the same price and you have to buy one anyway - definitely get the GT40. I believe you'll see improvement all the way across the rpm band from idle on up given the combo you're describing.

Nice to have such clarity and alignment of opinion in the threads isn't it?
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:01 PM   #8
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I didn't notice any loss in low end going to a gt40.
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Old 03-11-2011, 01:39 AM   #9
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Thanks for the advice!

Well, my driving habits are around town @ 30mph, then highway usually 65-70mph, occasionally 80, 85. I might then pass someone at 80mph in 3rd gear, and that would be the highest the engine would ever rev.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at the calculators for the AOD transmission with 3.55 gears and 225/75/15 tires, and it's showing life mostly lived @2000rpm, and passing someone at 75mph in 3rd gear, my most extreme driving style, is still only 3200 rpm?

I'm wondering now who pulls 5000rpm and when :-) I guess racing is another world, and you don't risk a cop's wrath at only 70mph.

I'm looking to wake this car up a little, so the engine doesn't lug in overdrive going up gentle slopes on the beltway, and so it doesn't feel so very sluggish when I put 600lbs in the trunk. Adjusting the tv cable should help with that... and the dual exhaust with shorties (instead of stock grand marquis headers) should do a lot.

Anyway, sounds like I'll be just happy with the HO intake for a while, that what very minor gains from the gt40 at lower rpms can wait a few months. This whole engine rebuild + exhaust is costing $1000 as it is. I already have the HO intake, it wasn't a choice of $140 on HO OR gt40, in that case there'd be no contest, it's $0 or $140 gt40 :-)

On the explorer cam... I'm interested. Anyone have one to give me?
However, as it is I'm planning to swap to the lincoln mark vii speed density computer, will plug right into my grand marquis harness and the lincoln had the HO engine, and thus of course HO timing; so it would be an easy transition, and I have two very clean HO camshafts on my workbench already... if I get the explorer cam, would i need an explorer computer and maf?

Last edited by BerniniCaCO3; 03-11-2011 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 03-11-2011, 01:53 AM   #10
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btw, am I wasting my efforts cleaning up the gt40 heads, or will they still be higher compression and better performing than e7te heads, and buy me noticeable horsepower even at just 3200rpm?

At any rate, either the e7te heads or the gt40s will be a helluva lot better than the E6SE heads that I'm running on my stock "lopo" 302 now!()

Probably a 351 would be the better choice for my 4000# car, but you can't blame me for a) not wanting to put in even more money to make that work and b) not wanting to pay for the gas... but hey, at least it's not a 460!
This car came with a 302, and putting in a better 302 is still going to be the easiest thing. Start making it too complicated a project, and it'll never make it out of the garage... I've got some of those already :-)
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Old 03-11-2011, 02:53 AM   #11
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I have an explorer cam, you pay shipping and you can have it
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:57 AM   #12
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sweet! pm sent.
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:40 AM   #13
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in the dyno testing I have files on, a stock HO as well as a ported HO lower intake will make more average torque below 3,500 rpm than a GT40 family intake - stick with an HO intake. At those rpms, forget a cold air intake other than a stock HO system.
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:02 AM   #14
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Pretty sure the stock Mustang HO cam is much better than an explorer cam. Most guys who get explorer engines pull that cam and swap in a mustang HO one.

Is this Bernard from Towson ?
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:00 PM   #15
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In a Panther id run a explorer cam, I believe I have one here as well.

Do you have gt40 heads already or is that something you have to buy?
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:01 PM   #16
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Hell I think I even have a MK7 comp here as well.
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Old 03-12-2011, 12:58 AM   #17
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Thanks tmoss! I know what I'll be doing now... but still interested in those dyno results, do you have a graph/spreadsheet?

Notchabove, yes I am: where do I know you from/ who do I know you as?

Gilroy: I think I'm set now on the cam. I have a mk7 computer already; needed it for the HO cam anyway.
I do wonder... some people have reported trouble with the mk7 computer and the HO conversion. They may have had gt40p heads. Any idea if I'll run into issues with gt40 heads? Will I need to go mass air? (which =$$ + no cruise control).

I already have the gt40 heads; lucked out at the boneyard and found 'em for $90. They're getting new sleeves as the wear is on the cusp of needing them, and they've been hottanked and of course are getting new seals. Also throwing on fresh springs so by the end they should be alright.
Only issue was the guy who got to the intake before I got the heads, broke two of the bolts off; spent a good 2 hours drilling them out and installing helicoils.
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Old 03-12-2011, 01:46 AM   #18
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A well ported stock lower EFI HO intake is worth it if keeping the stock heads.

I picked up one on my local forum at a good price that was never installed and ported by someone with experience who had contact with tmoss in the past.

It was worth it as the stock lower EFI intake flows less then the crappy stock E7 heads.

Stock lower EFI intake is a bottleneck,but the upper flows in the 190+cfm range
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Old 03-12-2011, 07:32 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BerniniCaCO3 View Post
Thanks tmoss! I know what I'll be doing now... but still interested in those dyno results, do you have a graph/spreadsheet?

Notchabove, yes I am: where do I know you from/ who do I know you as?

Gilroy: I think I'm set now on the cam. I have a mk7 computer already; needed it for the HO cam anyway.
I do wonder... some people have reported trouble with the mk7 computer and the HO conversion. They may have had gt40p heads. Any idea if I'll run into issues with gt40 heads? Will I need to go mass air? (which =$$ + no cruise control).

I already have the gt40 heads; lucked out at the boneyard and found 'em for $90. They're getting new sleeves as the wear is on the cusp of needing them, and they've been hottanked and of course are getting new seals. Also throwing on fresh springs so by the end they should be alright.
Only issue was the guy who got to the intake before I got the heads, broke two of the bolts off; spent a good 2 hours drilling them out and installing helicoils.
I dont see why you would have any problems. I didnt have any problems with mine.
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Old 03-12-2011, 07:34 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8950HO View Post
A well ported stock lower EFI HO intake is worth it if keeping the stock heads.

I picked up one on my local forum at a good price that was never installed and ported by someone with experience who had contact with tmoss in the past.

It was worth it as the stock lower EFI intake flows less then the crappy stock E7 heads.

Stock lower EFI intake is a bottleneck,but the upper flows in the 190+cfm range
^^i agree, I sent my h.o. U/L to tmoss and had him port both the upper and lower, I also think he opened the upper up to 65 or 70mm
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