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Old 01-05-2011, 12:42 AM   #1
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mild 351w daily driver build

i am pulling the 351w i was going to use in my carb car, i just picked up a white gt for a good deal....wanting to install the 351 into it, i was going to convert to efi was wondering whats a good setup for a good strong dd with ac? i have to go threw the block and i want to redo the whole thing rotating assessable and all. wondering what i should go for should i stroke it out dunno any good ideas would be nice...or maybe some feed back on what other guys have done. thanks
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:24 AM   #2
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One way to do it is to get a name brand quality cast crank along with 351 dimension rods and 302 dimension pistons for a relatively inexpensive 393. There are a number of good kits out there with those components, such as SCAT and Eagle. http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/ Read up on crank info on that website, drill down to find the sbf listings. They have rotating assemblies with good rods and either forged or hypereutectic pistons (a good choice for a n/a street motor). A cast crank has better harmonics for street rpms than a forged and as long as you're not crazy with rpms is arguably a better setup. Certainly less costly.

Here's a write up that, altho a few years old, details a heck of a strong street motor.

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...ked/index.html
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...or2/index.html

Notice they talk a lot about cams - and they point out that the XE284 cam that Ford puts in it's strokers is actually too big, what they end up using, altho they don't identify it as such, is the next smaller one in the Comp hydr roller lineup. If you don't have a roller block, you could probly get that in a retro roller.
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:01 PM   #3
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If the GT you picked up has the EFI harness still in it. I would buy the stuff you need to get the 351 installed(intake, injectors, etc..), and get a tune on it. Drive it. It would be the quickest way to just enjoy it. If you don't like it, then next winter add to it. That's what I would do.
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:47 PM   #4
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what kinda power do you think that relatively cheaper 393 would make?

I realize there are alot of other variables in it but for the one you were discussing throwing 351 based rods and 302 based pistons in and trying to stay somewhat on a cheaper budget say 3 to 3500?
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:57 PM   #5
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Heads and cam are the bigest question . You will need a good head to feed a 351 not to mention a 393 . The 393 is a great cheap way to go but make sure you have large piston notches so you can cam it .
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Old 01-13-2011, 08:31 PM   #6
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if i bult a 393 on a 3 to 4 grand budget, what kinda power do you think I could end uo getting out of it.
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Old 01-13-2011, 10:17 PM   #7
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i guess depending how cheap you really want to go and what power your looking for but this is what im building for my 91 LX
-351 bored .030 over with trw forged flat tops and eagle i beams with stock crank, roush sr heads, edelbrock rpm upper and lower and 30 lb injectors. its a $2000 build but im hoping it will make plenty of power especially with a 150 shot
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Old 01-13-2011, 10:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow351fox View Post
i guess depending how cheap you really want to go and what power your looking for but this is what im building for my 91 LX
-351 bored .030 over with trw forged flat tops and eagle i beams with stock crank, roush sr heads, edelbrock rpm upper and lower and 30 lb injectors. its a $2000 build but im hoping it will make plenty of power especially with a 150 shot
how much power are you thinking your going to get out of it?

Id like to stick around 3000 to 3500, and just get the most power out of a carb 351 that I can. Again theres just so many optiions between building that, stroker to 383, 398, 408, etc. Just seeing how much power I could make out of a 351 using that budget on carb motor.
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Old 01-13-2011, 10:46 PM   #9
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351

sent you a PM
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:48 AM   #10
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thanks for the pm grand!

but I was just curious how much power could be had out of a 351 for say 3 grand or 3500 and which would be the route to go. I know it just depends on the deals you can find, etc but on average what would be a good estimate?
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Old 01-16-2011, 02:59 AM   #11
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I did a 351 on a tight budget for a daily driver, after I gave up on going 393 when gas prices went crazy some years ago.

Only 170cc port 1.9 intake valve Performers, lo miles used for $600 is why, Explorer top over
Ford GT40-351 lower just port matched, (those GT40-351 lowers are hard to find cuz Ford quit making them quite awhile ago so for a mild driver I'd go Edelbrock Perf or Perf RPM efi upper over their 351 truck lower for good street throttle response & torque) stock shortblock for 9-1 comp ratio with the Perf heads, shorty headers, 2-1/2" catback. I started with a stock HO cam and put it on the dyno just to check air/fuel ratio. Cam was WAY too small even for a driver, so
it just went 315 hp at 5200 & 340 tq at 4200 with an AOD which sucks lots of power, even with 1.72 roller rockers. Then I switched to a trick flow stg 1 cam, still with the 1.72 rockers and it was night and day esp above 3000 even with the small heads. Never did dyno it, but was an amazing difference, so I figure maybe more like close to 340 hp and 360 tq or so. With the small heads on the 351 it starts to choke out around 5k or 5200, could use bigger heads. But budget budget budget. At least is fun to drive and gets good mileage on my long trips.

Definitely go a good quality roller timing chain setup like Cloyes tru-roller. I went with a different supposedly good aftermarket set but when I changed cams at only a few thousand miles it was already sloppy. And go stock capacity oil pump, hi flow or press just robs power on a driver motor and a stock pump is plenty adequate.

If you're roller cam, you need a 351 efi distributor. Only the last couple years had roller cams in 351's in light trucks, for the steel gear. Swapping gears is a royal PITA. You can figure out which motors had roller cams oem by looking at lifter listing in i.e. O'Reilly's website.

Here's my swap write-up.

http://www.lincolnsonline.com/tech/00144.html

It's into an 89 Lincoln Mark VII LSC, but that's pretty much just a longer Fox chassis.
Lots of little tips in there you don't normally find in swap articles. Also some good links.
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Old 01-16-2011, 03:21 AM   #12
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good info as I'm building a similar combo for my 88 T-bird t/c. looking for some heads, maybe some GT40's with a little work done to them. I'm going with a c4 and 2.73-3.08 gears and a tight converter. shooting for good gas milage.
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:10 AM   #13
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Yes, a C4 from what I understand doesn't suck as much power as esp the AOD.

However, I am working on another project - and doing some research into gearing, etc.

It comes stock with a 3 spd auto and 2.87 gears, but I wanted something with at least
a little bit of thrust off the line as well as the best mileage I can get for longr trips.
I'm also building the engine to be pretty mild and am concentrating on low and mid range.

Installing an OD (in this case with a .67 OD) and 3.31 gears drops me between 400 and
600 rpm at from 58 to 73 mph. This particular trans also has a deeper 2.84 first which
will, at the same time, give me a 25% reduction in overall 1st gear which should help
make it a little more fun from a stop.

And with the newer OD automatics, lockup takes care of the converter slip of the older
3 speeds, even with tight converters.

Probly blasphemy, but it might be something to check into? Like I said, AOD's suck power plus they have a high 1st gear, and 4R70W's take power plus need an expensive stand alone controller like a Baumann TCS. The trans I'm talking about is a 200-4R and is hydraulically controlled, and isn't large or overly heavy. In my mind, a beautiful trans for a mild street car. If you are at least curious, check into them at bowtie overdrives. I would think TCI would make adapters for them just like they do for 'Glide's for racing.
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZWilson07 View Post
if i bult a 393 on a 3 to 4 grand budget, what kinda power do you think I could end uo getting out of it.
That would depend on the entire combination. Some people can make an expensive turd that couldn't pull a greasy string out of a cat's ass. SOmeone else could take that same money and put something together that would be impressive. Two things to keep in mind is 302 parts make 302 power, and you need to have straight in your head what you want it to do when you are done with it.
Is a 351 really necessary for what you want to do? A few years ago I put a 351 together that made 346 RWHP onthe dyno, ran mid 8's@84-85 on street tires it was in a daily driver, got fair mileage and was very smooth. A couple years ago I built a 306, that makes 359RWHP on the dyno, runs low 8's @86-87 on street tires, gets fantastic mileage, idles almost like a stocker and pulls from low revs as good as the 351.
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:29 AM   #15
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"couldn't pull a greasy string out of a cat's ass" I LIKE that one, very descriptive!

Knowledgeable sbf people will agree with you on the 5.0 stroker vs 5.8 thing.
With the lighter reciprocating assembly a 331/347 will rev quicker than a 5.8,
not to mention things like it's a little lighter, more hood room for intakes, and
with a wider selection of intakes for efi, including good used ones if you're on
any kind of a budget.

The only real value in a 5.8 is in the ability to turn it into i.e. a 393 or larger,
otherwise all the little hassles in the swap make it much more fun to use the
5.0 as everything already fits and none of the small annoyances.

Been there, done that, got the T shirt, don't want another one.
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:35 AM   #16
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Quote:
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The only real value in a 5.8 is in the ability to turn it into i.e. a 393 or larger,
That's why my stationwagon has a 418
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:42 AM   #17
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THAT sounds like fun!

Just out of curiosity, because I originally bought my 351 instead of stroking the 5.0 to make it into a budget 393, but chickened out when gas went to near $4.00.

I was going to build it mainly for mid range torque and a hp peak in the low 5's so I
wouldn't have to spin it over the low side of 6k.

I suppose being you went as large as you did that it's built pretty stout?
If not real radical, I'd be curious about your mileage (and your gearing).

I just LOVE big block torque.

Thx!
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:44 AM   #18
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I suppose being you went as large as you did that it's built pretty stout?
If not real radical, I'd be curious about your mileage (and your gearing).
It's from fordstrokers, Duane Busch ported canfields, and super victor, 1 7/8" longtubes, 3 1/2" exhaust. As soon as it is running I'll post up a report here.
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:20 PM   #19
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good info guys.

Im not opposed to going to a 302 or keeping a 351 or w.e but its jst kinda hard to choose what to go with.

What I do know is it will be a carb motor, budget of 3 to 4 grand, looking for 400 to the wheels if possible on that budget.

So whether a 302 or 351, neither really matters to me, just the hp to money ratio at the end of the day and still be realiable but this will strictly be a street car on weekends to play in.
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:52 PM   #20
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A buddy of mine did a stock bore 351w build and he used out of the box afr 185cc heads. I think 52cc chambers. It had a very very mild cam, and the only thing he added internally was high compression pistons. It yeilded about 11:1 in the end and made 415whp!
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:02 AM   #21
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A buddy of mine did a stock bore 351w build and he used out of the box afr 185cc heads. I think 52cc chambers. It had a very very mild cam, and the only thing he added internally was high compression pistons. It yeilded about 11:1 in the end and made 415whp!
wow thats def pretty good. I have no doubt a 351 can easily mak 400 to the wheels with a good setup. Im just trying to decide if on a 3 to 4 grand budget, and 400 to the wheels on motor is better to go with a 302 or 351 setup?
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:41 PM   #22
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wow thats def pretty good. I have no doubt a 351 can easily mak 400 to the wheels with a good setup. Im just trying to decide if on a 3 to 4 grand budget, and 400 to the wheels on motor is better to go with a 302 or 351 setup?
You can argue either way, however I will say for a budget build it's better to go with a 351 setup because you can use the stock crank and rods and keep the stock displacement so it will save you thousands in machine shop and rods/crank costs that you would have to spend setting up a 302 block to make the same power as a 351. And at the end of the day, you don't have to worry about the block splitting in half over 500hp.
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:04 PM   #23
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You can argue either way, however I will say for a budget build it's better to go with a 351 setup because you can use the stock crank and rods and keep the stock displacement so it will save you thousands in machine shop and rods/crank costs that you would have to spend setting up a 302 block to make the same power as a 351. And at the end of the day, you don't have to worry about the block splitting in half over 500hp.
very good point. If I cant find any good used motors around, should I just go with a bare block and have it sent to the machine shop. Then when I get it back start the build up there?
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