Eaton M112 Install on 5.0 LTD (pics!)

[seawalkersee]

Time for another $200 JY short block? I wish I could help but I am too far away.

SWS

[AlexLTDLX]

Yeah, I think so. When I pull the car in, I'll take pics of the damage. But it's not all bad - as I mentioned, the shortblock was wasted when I put it in - and just wait until you see my in-block fly cutting job! The pistons in the current block are "badger" brand hypers. Not exactly top of the line.

Now for the good - I just happen to have a good roller 302 on an engine stand in my garage. It came out of the ex-wife's 1990 Towncar from back in the day. I figure I can use everything from that motor except for the pistons. I'll get some decent ones this time - forged, reverse dome TW specific - any suggestions? Obviously, the cheaper the better. I'll re-use the crank and rods since I'm not turning over 6,000 rpm anyway. I'll just get the block cleaned, bored .030 over, new cam bearings put in and possibly deck the block - I won't bother align honing or anything - I know that motor ran very well (and smooth). So a sort of budget rebuild but with decent slugs.

I got to this point after talking with Matt - no point really in spending the $$ on stock block 302 stroker, when the limiting factor in this case will be the block. The rods and crank will likely hold up longer than the block, too. I'm open to suggestions on this one as well.

Looking at the pics of the deformed spark plug, I think I can see little bits of aluminum on it. You can't see them with the naked eye - I think the camera's flash highlights them better. We'll all know soon enough.

[derf]

OK, this thread has my interest.

I have a M112 on the way and plans to put it on a 5.0.

[joeswr400]

When you pull the heads, you will likely find a melted ring land on #3. Crap happens. I'm impressed as hell so far. My car has run as fast as 120 in the quarter with 3.55's and a T5, turning 5400-5500 at the stripe. I'd be worried that 3.27's will KILL your 60 ft. I was on a mission to get my first 11 sec slip this fall when the clutch fragged in a brilliant way. The auto trans swap is next. I feel your frustration. With the T-5, I just didn't have the heart to speed shift the poor thing.

Good luck, post pics of the carnage, we all love that stuff!

[FullThrottleAhead]

subscribing.

wow. i love the looks of that dyno sheet. i have had an m112 of an 04 terminator for about 4 months now and just haven't gotten around to the work (which includes a megasquirt and dis)

cannot wait to read more.

[AlexLTDLX]

I think you guys are right. Tonight I finally pulled (well, pushed) the LTD into the garage under the guise of cleaning up to get the holiday decorations out of the attic. I've been doing quite a bit of research into pistons - basically, it looks like I could go with a compression ratio in the low 8's or 9's - which would you choose? Unfortunately, I'm not finding any pistons for TW heads that would give me 8.8-9.0:1. I'll hopefully tear it down this week and take some pics to share...

[metalman302]

I saw these the other day and thought you would get a kick out of them...

http://www.moranav6racing.com/

Only $150 for this top plate....


Only $450 for both these gems




Unfortunately he does not sell an adapter for the mate the air filter to the header collectors, or an adapter for the mufflers to the tb\carb

[AlexLTDLX]

Nice! But I don't get it... the TB (or carb) is on the discharge? Are they running the blower backwards, or did they mill another opening on the blower, or have I just gone completely stupid?

Then again, I'm working on a plan to eliminate that heavy bit between the blower and exhaust. I figure it's just not necessary. If I can get the equations just right, I should just be able to generate necessary thrust straight outta the pipes. And fewer moving parts = fewer frictional losses. It's a win-win!

In reality, I've gotten swamped in the last month or so, and with a cold snap happening outside, I haven't had an opportunity to do the tear down. But I do have it all planned out, with input from Woody, my local machinist and Mark over at Probe. I've got a pretty good "semi-budget" plan of attack. And I have the 80 lb seimens injectors still sitting on my desk...

Thanks for the laugh! (and the "WTF"...)

[terryr]

What's wrong with this picture?

Hey, the top hole must be the IN hole right? It's on top! No need to test it. Or think about it beforehand.

[MisterBill]

Very interesting build!!!

[jfboy]

Are those Lightning Eaton units?

[Spoolx]

Originally Posted by jfboy

Are those Lightning Eaton units?

yup

[fast Ed]

No, that would be an M90 Super Coupe blower, on the 3.8 SC intake. Not sure how Tom plans for it to work with the carb mounted to the outlet as mentioned.


cheers
Ed N.

[jfboy]

Can you build a setup around a Lightning Blower?

[MJs89GT]

Pretty sure that on top of wanting to spin it backwards these blowers aren't machined to run fuel through either.

[metalman302]

Originally Posted by MJs89GT

Pretty sure that on top of wanting to spin it backwards these blowers aren't machined to run fuel through either.

Hahahaha you're right. Bye bye bearing seals and bye bye rotor coatings!

Although I did see a DIY build on a full size pickup truck where they had the carb plumbed correctly into the rear inlet. The truck was up and running but iirc they did not put many miles on the setup; and then their parents junked the truck while he was away at college.

[metalman302]

Originally Posted by jfboy

Are those Lightning Eaton units?

You own a lightning and can't tell the difference?

I have not seen a remote mounted Lightning blower yet, but this one is pretty close......

You Tube

You Tube

[seawalkersee]

Not sure what you meant by spinning it backwards, but that is setup to spin the correct way. I think he is planning on using the pumping vacuum of the the engine to suck the fuel and air past the rotors on the outside. Not the most efficient, but it will probably work.

Is there a difference on blowers that are designed for fuel flow through them? I mean, I know these are supposed to be dry from the factory, but they do get a bit of oil in them.

SWS

[metalman302]

Originally Posted by seawalkersee

Not sure what you meant by spinning it backwards, but that is setup to spin the correct way. I think he is planning on using the pumping vacuum of the the engine to suck the fuel and air past the rotors on the outside. Not the most efficient, but it will probably work.

Is there a difference on blowers that are designed for fuel flow through them? I mean, I know these are supposed to be dry from the factory, but they do get a bit of oil in them.

SWS

Setup to spin the correct way? How so? Ribs on the belt to a ribbed pulley will always spin clockwise. Same as the Tbird SC. However the inlets and outlets are plumbed backwards. Are you going to put a smooth blower pulley on and somehow wrap the backside of the belt around it? Of course not!

The dude ####ed up plain and simple.

[toddturbo]

Originally Posted by metalman302

Hahahaha you're right. Bye bye bearing seals and bye bye rotor coatings!

Many of the Lightning stock Eaton tuners remove the coating anyway (called stripped rotors)-and then send it to Steigmeier (spelling?) to have it ported. Supposedly there is a 30-50 HP difference. For the seals-don't know how they'd work with fuel. There is constantly oil on the factory Lightning setup though from the PCV system. Very common for guys to remove the IC and clean the oil off of them...and trust me...they get PLUGGED. I pulled mine at 50,000, 100,000 and cleand it. Both times it took I think 14 cans of carb cleaner to get it clean enough to put back in. Lots of oil in there! And it seems like the guys who are complaining about their rotors losing the coating are also the same guys who have an aftermarket PCV and/or breathers. I didn't notice any coating material on my IC when I pulled it out either time I did it. In fact, other than the rotors looking brown from oil vapor, they looked new.

[91GTFiveOh]

That video is cool that he made it work. But that piping is horrid, look at the angle of the pipe in the driver side fender, 90 degree sharp turn! lmao

[tmoss]

pipe is easily fixed later.

[metalman302]

Alex, what gauge or thickness steel should someone use to fab an inlet or outlet plate for an Eaton?

[AlexLTDLX]

metalman302 - I used 1/4 inch thick steel plate. Is that what you should use? I dunno, but that what I used because it's what I had on hand. It seems to have worked out pretty well, though - thick enough for structure, but thin enough to be bent flat (with a great deal of force, of course) after welding.

I'm glad to see all the interest in this thread. I do intend to have the car back at the track near the beginning of next season, but as it's been too cold outside lately to work in the garage (comfortably, anyways), I'm taking a couple of months to catch up on other things. In the meantime, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask!

[joeystang]

I used 1/4" plate as well. 3/16" just didn't seem to be ridged enough. Great build by the way, I'm now working on an offset setup kind of like yours but on the drivers side like a Kenne bell that can be ran through a front mount intercooler if necessary. Check out my build thread: Cobra Eaton on 5.0

also have a for-sale thread that I'm sure some of ya'll have seen. I like seeing all these different options for the 5.0. Alot of creative people out there including yourself.

[prk109]

what did the old bbk super charger kit use for a blower??

[91GTFiveOh]

Where did you get the blue silicone that goes on the block and intake mani?

[tmoss]

Fel Pro makes them and puts them in some kits

[91GTFiveOh]

thanks I'll try and find them, I'll ive been able to find is cork ones.

[Lee8995]

Originally Posted by prk109

what did the old bbk super charger kit use for a blower??

M90

[DSBLK93GT]

Originally Posted by 91GTFiveOh

thanks I'll try and find them, I'll ive been able to find is cork ones.

I've always just used Black or Gray High Temp RTV, nice bead front and back, let it tack up and never had an issue.

[seawalkersee]

Originally Posted by metalman302

Setup to spin the correct way? How so? Ribs on the belt to a ribbed pulley will always spin clockwise. Same as the Tbird SC. However the inlets and outlets are plumbed backwards. Are you going to put a smooth blower pulley on and somehow wrap the backside of the belt around it? Of course not!

The dude ####ed up plain and simple.

I looked at the pic and saw that the blower snout is on the same side as factory. If he pulled it out, flipped it over, they would spin the opposite way. This is not the case for this setup. Not sure how it works.

SWS

[metalman302]

Originally Posted by prk109

what did the old bbk super charger kit use for a blower??

It was a M90 but somewhat unique. It had the upgraded larger square inlet and coated rotors same as the 94 95 SC blowers. They made 2 more psi than the previous SC blowers at the same rpm. On the SC's these ones were underdriven to make the same psi as the earlier ones, but those cars still made more power due to the blower being more efficient. The BBK nose was really short. I think the Jaguar M90s had a nose equally as short, but the jags had different mounting points than the BBK which had the SC points.

BTW I have a 94 95 SC M90 fs, pm if interested.

[ndtguy]

Awesome thread. I just spent the last hour reading it. Good luck on your build and keep us updated on how things are going.

[metalman302]

Originally Posted by seawalkersee

I looked at the pic and saw that the blower snout is on the same side as factory. If he pulled it out, flipped it over, they would spin the opposite way. This is not the case for this setup. Not sure how it works.

SWS

Can't. Bolt pattern is completely different on top and on bottom.