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Old 08-13-2010, 12:05 AM   #1
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whos gone from efi to carb and are you happy you did?

thinking of going to a carbed setup and ditching my current efi setup on my 93 gt. whats the pros and cons
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Old 08-13-2010, 08:40 AM   #2
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i love my carb. the ease of working under the hood, the simplicity of the engine bay, the fact that i can tune it with a vac guage and screwdriver. you could even run a O2 if you wanted. i just check the plugs. i am getting about 15mpg, and that is with a lot of "check this out" with buddy's. i am sure if i just freeway cruised it i could nurse 22-24mpg. i sold my EFI stuff, and easily made 2x's what it cost to convert to a carb.

cheaper, easier, power is as good, maybe better then EFI.

only disadvantage it takes a few minutes of warm up. an electric choke would solve this, but i have no choke. and i guess the fact that Al gore is going to personally repo my car from me has me up at nights......
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Old 08-13-2010, 05:14 PM   #3
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I am in the process of converting. I second basically everything the previous guy said. My car wouldn't idle right and I swear there is more power being left on the table (even after I spent a fortune having it dyno tuned) This guy is right about selling the stuff and making 2x what you need to convert to carb as well.

I am switching because of above reasons and I'm sick of having to rely on someone else tune my car and have it cost me even more money, since I have a feeling they aren't going to take the time to do it right, because what do they care, it's not their car.

My opinion, is if you are going to go with EFI I would get a stand alone setup. (AEM, FAST etc) Otherwise I wouldn't bother. EEC-IV is garbage, I have nothing good to say about it.
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Old 08-13-2010, 05:42 PM   #4
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i to suffer from a rough/surging idle...biggest problem is the closest dyno tune is 3+ hours away...i want to go carb but just want to make sure i do it right...any chance you can PM me some prices you sold your efi stuff for? i have no idea what is should go for?
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Old 08-13-2010, 05:50 PM   #5
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i personally think its a good idea if you are having a big electrictrical problem.. my dad has a 88 gt vert that he traded for a beater pickup he had.. the wiring to the computer was way messed up and rigged cheaply.. he put a edelbrock intake and holley 670 vac secondary with a electric choke and a external fuel pump and it fires right up, idles awsome and makes a little more power.. the vac secondary is the way to got because the double pumper was way too much fuel for the little 302.. drowned the motor in my experience
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Old 08-13-2010, 06:02 PM   #6
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conversion

I had a 90 on nitrous, had a back fire, blew thousands of dollars of FI stuff right through my cowl hood. State farm kicked in gave me a few grand, bought a B&M 174 blower and a HP900 holley and first pass went 10.teens @ 135 mph, (dss 306). Previous best on the bottle was 11.27 @ 127.
How can you go wrong.........
Running a carb again now on my 66, havent run EFI since 97, thank god!
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Old 08-13-2010, 06:09 PM   #7
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I have sold more parts than this, as I seem to accumulate and figure out that I don't want it anymore... Hopefully you get the idea though.

Mass Air conversion kit - $330
BBK cold air kit - $60
Fuel Pressure regulator - $50
C&L Meter/elbow - $160
42# injectors - $240

Still have yet to sell
TFI Distributor - $20
Fuel Rail - $10
70mm Throttle body - $80-100?
70mm EGR spacer - $30-40?
70mm EGR delete plate - $30-40?
Tubular Gt-40 Manifold - $350-400?

Basically I just try to put myself in the shoes of a buyer for stock parts, what would I pay for stock parts. And for aftermarket items I go about 60% of what it cost new, if used. Again trying to make sure that the price makes sense. I list all my stuff on craigslist. When you do it make sure and host images somewhere, like photobucket and put the image on the ad with HTML, it saves a ton of time when relisting when ads expire and also gives bigger more detailed pictures of what you are selling. All you have to do is click relist and you don't have to search for each picture. Answer questions before people as them by putting enough info, while keeping it short and sweet/easy to read. If I see posts (like this one you are reading now) I will just completely skip the ad in most cases, because I don't want to read it.
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Old 08-13-2010, 07:24 PM   #8
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I was having prob with my idle for prob a year.Did get it straightened out & havent had any prob w/ my EFI at all.It was tuned once and dont plan on changing anything so I will be good.I just cant see ripping out perfectly good EFI comp for a carb setup that doesent belong in my car.But thats just my opinion .
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Old 08-13-2010, 07:32 PM   #9
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i have given serious thought to swapping from EFI to Carb.For good aftermarket parts Fuel tank pickup to intake will cost you $1800(Summit Racing prices) This includes a MSD Dizzy and 6al box. here is the list of parts i made

Granatelli tank pickup
Aeromotive inline fuel filter
Edelbrock 160gph fuel pump
25' 1/2" aluminum fuel line
Aeromotive regulator
Holley DPer of your choice
Edelbrock super victor
8' steel braided fuel line
MSD Billet Dizzy
MSD 6al


still need a throttle cable, assorted AN fittings, good air cleaner/filter. Figure on recouping around $1000 for your EFI parts(unless they are stock parts)
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:14 PM   #10
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I just did..Its the best thing I have ever done to that car.
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Old 08-13-2010, 11:04 PM   #11
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If I was to do it over again, I would stick with EFI, one that I can program myself.

It's adaptable to changing conditions. I can dial in air/fuel to be safe and spot on. There's a lot of effort to install it and get it going but once it's set up, you're done.
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Old 08-14-2010, 04:31 PM   #12
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i am VERY happy with my carb'd rig.. but lets be real here.. comparing apples to apples, a carb is not all that much cheaper (just easier) than a similar efi setup..

sure you can run a eddy cheapo 200 dollar car, a typhoon intake and make up some cheap hose and use the factory lines and the car will run (poorly).. and you'll save big bucks compared to a high perf efi setup..


but if you are switching and buying 'good' parts for your carb setup, like you haev likely priced out for the efi setup, its not all that much cheaper.. i could have done a similar efi setup for about the same (plus the price of a tune) dont decide baised on price.. decide based on what direction you want to take the car


heres my parts list, as you can tell it wasnt exactly cheap.

prosystems 780
victor jr
fuel pressure gauge x2 (nitrous and engine side)
aeromotive SS fuel pump
holley regulator x2 (one for nitrous)
40 feet of -8 braided hose (feed and return)
like 30 various an fittings
new stock fuel tank (not stupid enough to weld on one that has had gas in it)
fuel sump
air cleaner
k&n filter element
air cleaner wingnut
85 gt throttle cable
valve cover breathers
mallory 685 (way better than a 6al, same money)
msd pro billet dist
msd blaster coil


now some people always tell me you 'dont need that stuff' .. if you are building a nice car, not some 1/2 assed hackjob jalopy it'll be a similar price
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Old 08-14-2010, 06:22 PM   #13
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I've spent about $1000 so far on my carb swap. Only things I have left to get are a couple fuel fittings and some throttle linkage/brackertry. Everything has been new except carb, which I bought and went through and rebuilt.

So I figure I would be spending about $1300 (being generous) in my whole swap.

EFI components:
CAI - 160
MAF meter - 220
Throttle body and spacer - 200 + 60
Upper and lower manifold - 500 to 600
Fuel pump - 130
Injectors - 290
Tune - 800

Comes out to 2360 to 2460
All those prices are for new parts priced at Summit. The tune price is what I personally paid for my tune, which wasn't the greatest in my opinion and I have no ability to change it myself. Carb allows me the ability to tune for and half the price.
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Old 08-14-2010, 06:28 PM   #14
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now some people always tell me you 'dont need that stuff' .. if you are building a nice car, not some 1/2 assed hackjob jalopy it'll be a similar price
In order to do EFI right, you would be ditching stock computer and stuff and going with an AEM, FAST, or the like. EEC-IV just isn't going to cut it. There are some people that say it can/will but I don't believe in it(EEC-IV) myself. I had my car tuned, still gave me issues, and cost me a fortune. AND I have to pay all over again(minus the cost of the chip) to get it tuned again if needed
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Old 08-14-2010, 06:36 PM   #15
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i went from efi to carb when i did my 351 in my 93 notch. It looked awesome under the hood all the wires tucked and just the clean look of an anodized throttle cable and braidded fuel lines, i didnt however like the how it warmed up or ran, loss of gas milage compared to my efi 351
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Old 08-14-2010, 07:26 PM   #16
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I am beginning to hate EFI. Once you make some big changes, it is hard to get it just right. I know folks that spend 600-700 bucks for a tune. As soon as you want to make a change, drop some more cash. I think tuners get too much money. $200 an hour? Geez, give me a break. I've been trying to get my car tuned by a shop and it hasn't worked out too good. I'm on the fence to switch to carb myself.
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Old 08-15-2010, 07:27 PM   #17
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Depends on whether the fuel injection is working properly or not. On older cars, you get to a point where the connections are corroded, rats are eating the wires, injectors are stuck or clogged, sensors are failing one after the other, and the computer is starting to burn out. If the engine is running like #### because of various gremlins and will take a carb without failing inspection, it just makes more sense to get rid of the ratty old EFI and make the vehicle reliable again.

And if you are going to make a lot of engine modifications, either replace the factory system with one that you can tune yourself or with a carb. It's just not worth the hassle of fighting with a highly confused stock engine computer.

Otherwise, if it runs good and you have no major plans for it, leave it alone.
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Old 08-15-2010, 08:49 PM   #18
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stick w/EFI,carb is the cheap way out. Its a way out of not dealin with EFI or learnin how to tune ur car. Either get a good aftermarket ecu or even a digital 7 would work better. Look at any seriours high hp car,most of them run fast,gen7,BS3,ect. Thats the best way to tune. Like i said even a good ignition box would help u tune better,control timing & fuel curves,boost curves,ect. Carb changes w/atmosphere changes,u can change ur tune from inside the car w/a handheld or laptop instead of a screw driver under the hood
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:11 PM   #19
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I've been driving injected cars since 1978. Can't imagine going back to carbs on anything that's new. However - might find myself back in the business of carbs again. Going on Wed. to look at a 2 owner disassembled (34 years ago) 1964 Maserati 3500GT that has a 3.5L DOHC inline 6 fed by a trio of Weber 42 DCOE carbs. However, optional on the 3500GTi was fuel injection - so even on that one I may look at moving from carbs to injection.
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:25 PM   #20
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you can use the stock tank. use stock peice on top of tank where pump goes into tank: 90 degree 3/8"or 1/2"(what ever size line, 1/2" is ideal) bulk head fitting, cut pump tube flush on both sides, use stepped drill bit to enlarge to disirred size for bulk head fitting. same size tube nut and sleeve and flared tubing go into factory tank where efi pump was 1/2"-3/4" from bottom of tank. use 3' of aeroquip push lok hose, run to rear of car to your shiny new filter and fuel pump.1/2" aluminum line is only $25, rubber coated adel clamps $15. cost less than a fuel cell and you keep your factory fuel level sending unit. did it on 2 cars , worked just as good as a HI dollar set up. the carb intake didn't cost as much as efi one . you don't need a $800 dollar carb either. holley blue is enough, spend money where it counts the most(heads, suspension and slicks. it's not as hard as it looks.

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Old 08-15-2010, 09:36 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ssomustang50 View Post
stick w/EFI,carb is the cheap way out. Its a way out of not dealin with EFI or learnin how to tune ur car. Either get a good aftermarket ecu or even a digital 7 would work better. Look at any seriours high hp car,most of them run fast,gen7,BS3,ect. Thats the best way to tune. Like i said even a good ignition box would help u tune better,control timing & fuel curves,boost curves,ect. Carb changes w/atmosphere changes,u can change ur tune from inside the car w/a handheld or laptop instead of a screw driver under the hood
Who was tuning before 1985? I guess the carb guys, and many many decades before. As for "serious" cars, carbs make plenty of steam. Customer best of 4.84-146, junky carburetor Oh ya 308 inches also. The carb learning curve is simple and they are CRISP

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Old 08-16-2010, 12:22 AM   #22
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Depends on whether the fuel injection is working properly or not. On older cars, you get to a point where the connections are corroded, rats are eating the wires, injectors are stuck or clogged, sensors are failing one after the other, and the computer is starting to burn out. If the engine is running like #### because of various gremlins and will take a carb without failing inspection, it just makes more sense to get rid of the ratty old EFI and make the vehicle reliable again.

And if you are going to make a lot of engine modifications, either replace the factory system with one that you can tune yourself or with a carb. It's just not worth the hassle of fighting with a highly confused stock engine computer.

Otherwise, if it runs good and you have no major plans for it, leave it alone.
I think that was quite well said.

And also those with the FAST AEM Big Stuff etc etc, also dropped 2k+ on a fuel injection system. I was going to do that but I got economical about it, because I saw it like this. I can spend 2k+ for EFI and not run any faster... Or I can spend <2k and switch to carb while adding a nitrous setup on top of it. It just made more sense for me.
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Old 08-16-2010, 12:24 AM   #23
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Strokeme, that picture is freakin awesome. Very nice touch with the license plate underneath like that. Very cool
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Old 08-16-2010, 12:28 AM   #24
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I did the swap on my 91 a i had a few years ago, loved how easy it was to tune and mess with got good mileage and the power and throttle response was unreal, carbs are great as long as they are setup right.

Now if i had it to do all over again i wouldnt have swapped, I just like EFI better I would rather get a AFM PMS or tweecer and tune it that way vs messing with jets and airbleeds and all the other little things that go along with the carbs.

but if your building a track car carb is the best way to go IMO, if its a DD street car keep the EFI.

and dont get sucked into the whole carb swap is cheaper than a good EFI setup. for what I had in my swap + all the time I spent messing doing the swap, I could of ahd a very nice EFI setup.

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Old 08-16-2010, 12:25 PM   #25
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Speaking from a pure swap standpoint, EFI is just better. In our 64' Falcon, we had a 289 carbed, a 302 carbed, and now a 5.0 EFI, and make hands down way more horsepower than I did before.

88' 5.0 H.O. (throttle body to pan) $150 -Craigslist
91' A9P ECU + wiring harnesses and relays $50 -Craigslist
96' Explorer (GT40) heads, intakes, TB and 19# injectors $125 -UpullRparts, Rosemount, MN
.030 Milled, 3 angle valve job and new seals $300 -Cylinder Head Supply, Minneapolis, MN
Crane 1.7 RR $120 shipped -Craigslist Cincinnati, OH
Trick Flow Spring kit $150 -Summit Racing
94' Lincoln Town Car (F2VF) MAF $15 -Highway 101 salvage, Savage, MN
MSD external fuel pump $65 -eBay
20' Braided line, fittings and clamps $200 - Jegs

So for a grand total of a little over $1100, I went from a 79' carb'd 302 to basically a 93' Cobra setup. I have since sold the 79' block, cam, heads and the 88' E7 heads and H.O. intakes, injectors, TB, and MAF for a total of about $500, and I still have in my possession a 289 Performer intake, edelbrock 600cfm carb, manual fuel pump, air cleaner, etc., which is everything I need to have to go back to carbed if need be. I'd imagine once I'm done with this motor, I would easily be able to recoupe my money that I've invested.

I don't know much about carbs other than it is a controlled fuel leak. I was born in 86', so I grew up with fuel injection, and more importantly a digital voltmeter. I can diagnose my own EFI system very easily as I was the one who imagined it, created it, and installed it. I understand how to tune a carb, but there is something that can be said for 95% of racing teams use some sort of electronic fuel strategy. I completely and fully agree that ford's EEC-IV isn't very friendly to hotroders, but it is the ease of the swap that makes the ECU so great. Both carbed and EFI have their ups and downs, but to me, I would never go back to a carbed setup just because of the driveability, fuel economy, etc., and at the end of the day, I would be happy to pay a little more to have the reliability of the 5.0 EFI setup.

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Old 08-16-2010, 01:23 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by 3uzfte View Post
Speaking from a pure swap standpoint, EFI is just better. In our 64' Falcon, we had a 289 carbed, a 302 carbed, and now a 5.0 EFI, and make hands down way more horsepower than I did before.
I want to point out you are making your power through better heads and valvetrain and cam, which can be used in a carb setup as well, not because you switched to EFI.

And who says carbs are unreliable?

My car with EFI, drivability is absolutely horrible as in everytime I put the clutch in and let off the gas to come to a stop it dies. I have to 3 foot it just to keep it running at every stop. I had it tuned and it is still just as horrible. As for mileage we will see. If my car idles like its supposed to and runs like its supposed to I will forgive the mileage part of it, which I'm not all that concerned about anyway.

EFI is good, but stock isn't. The price of an aftermarket stand alone system it is not either.
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Old 08-16-2010, 01:27 PM   #27
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Ah, you know what? I'm just going to shut up, I don't want to get in a flame war. I've added my input and I'll just zip it. I'm sorry if I've flamed anyone, my experience so far with this EEC-IV stuff has been absolutely horrible and my issue is with that rather than what anyone else on here is saying so no one take anything personal or anything. To each their own, but my experience hasn't been good.
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Old 08-16-2010, 01:48 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Scout2232 View Post
I want to point out you are making your power through better heads and valvetrain and cam, which can be used in a carb setup as well, not because you switched to EFI.

And who says carbs are unreliable?

My car with EFI, drivability is absolutely horrible as in everytime I put the clutch in and let off the gas to come to a stop it dies. I have to 3 foot it just to keep it running at every stop. I had it tuned and it is still just as horrible. As for mileage we will see. If my car idles like its supposed to and runs like its supposed to I will forgive the mileage part of it, which I'm not all that concerned about anyway.

EFI is good, but stock isn't. The price of an aftermarket stand alone system it is not either.
There is something wrong with your car! What are you going to do when you have a problem with the carb setup,buy a horse and buggy???
Your combo has been done to death and it shouldnt need any tuning other than timing,fuel pressure,tps voltage and the correct mass air. DONE!
Either you dont have the skills or are too lazy to figure what the problem is.If thats the case? Find a new hobby because you are the problem not the issue with the car.
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Old 08-16-2010, 01:59 PM   #29
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I switched over to carb a while back and I am pretty happy,although I probably only drove the car a few miles since the switch.It is some work,but pretty easy.I had nothing but problems out of my fuel injection,but I think mine was a cam issue.Whatever though.Like I say,its your car so do what you want with it.If you would be happier with a carb,then go for it.
Please,do it right though,dont halfa$$ it.New lines,sump the tank,etc.I made about $1000 off of my efi setup and spent about $3500 on the new setup,but I bought new heads and had my motor rebuilt.I ran all new lines,sumped my tank,replaced all sorts of parts,only used part I have on the car is an Edelbrock RPM intake,oh and a quickfuel carb,a friend of mine had,but its like new.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:00 PM   #30
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There is something wrong with your car! What are you going to do when you have a problem with the carb setup,buy a horse and buggy???
Your combo has been done to death and it shouldnt need any tuning other than timing,fuel pressure,tps voltage and the correct mass air. DONE!
Either you dont have the skills or are too lazy to figure what the problem is.If thats the case? Find a new hobby because you are the problem not the issue with the car.
Yea what's wrong with it is that it has EEC-IV EFI

And to point out I'm not the only one who has had problems with this stuff. Also you are right, if I had the equip to do it I would do it myself. Problem is I don't have access to an SCT burner, which is why I had it tuned. I have no problem doing stuff, as I said before if you read, I was going to get an AEM setup, but dropping 2k in the ECU just isn't doable for me and end up in the same place I was when I started. Converting to carb, I save money, probably make more power, AND I get a power adder to boot. Seems pretty easy choice to me.
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:13 PM   #31
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Yea what's wrong with it is that it has EEC-IV EFI

And to point out I'm not the only one who has had problems with this stuff. Also you are right, if I had the equip to do it I would do it myself. Problem is I don't have access to an SCT burner, which is why I had it tuned. I have no problem doing stuff, as I said before if you read, I was going to get an AEM setup, but dropping 2k in the ECU just isn't doable for me and end up in the same place I was when I started. Converting to carb, I save money, probably make more power, AND I get a power adder to boot. Seems pretty easy choice to me.
You are pretty thick so I can see why you cant grasp this. YOU DONT NEED A CUSTOM TUNE WITH YOUR COMBO!!!
Its problem with a "hard part" ie mechanical,vacuum or eletrical component.

Its not going to be fixed no matter who tunes it .It needs to be diagnosed and repaired.
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:22 PM   #32
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You are pretty thick so I can see why you cant grasp this. YOU DONT NEED A CUSTOM TUNE WITH YOUR COMBO!!!
Its problem with a "hard part" ie mechanical,vacuum or eletrical component.

Its not going to be fixed no matter who tunes it .It needs to be diagnosed and repaired.
Haha, ok dude you're right you got me... King of Internet forums, I bow down to thee...

It is already diagnosed (EFI problem) and it is repaired now, sold and now carbed. Thanks though!
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:26 PM   #33
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Also as I said before, I'm not here to start a flame war and I apologized for getting a bit passionate, but it's pretty irritating to listen to someone talk crap on the internet saying I'm lazy and I did things wrong and I'm thick and this and that. All I did was provide my 2 cents and then you gotta start with insults. Get real, this forum is support and questions and education. Not childish bickering.
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:39 PM   #34
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of corse this subject brings up all kinds of opinions/myths etc... all i can speak of is my expereince.

EFI: kept trying to get my TPS voltage dead on, kept getting CEL's for the smog junk i removed, played the fuel inj/MAF size game, bought all the bolt on's, and never was all that fast. kept getting told to get a tune, but from all the expereinces of others it seems like that is either the best thing, of just like throwing money away. plus i hate the idea of "don't change anything". after i am tuned.

Carbed: bolt it on and go. just tune using the spark plugs, mech adv timing light, and going to a test and tune. no real rocket science. you could use a wideband and laptop too, you would just have to make changes MANUALLY, get your hands dirty imagine that.


the hardest thing is running the fuel system. lots of guys say they just use the factory line....not sure, i ran new. no reason to buy much of this new, it's old technology, just check it out before hand, and you can find things 1/2 the cost of new. i love not having 59 sensors, wiring harness', and crap all over my egine bay.

found a used super vic intake $100, bought a edelbrock carb $75. resealed/cleaned >$25. electric pump >$100. no reason to run braided steel from the tank to the engine, just use the hard aluminum lines, cheap, durable. think it was about $30. then i just used to braided steel sections from the tank pick up to the hardline, hardline up the fender to the regulator. using a line bending tool ($5) , and a line flaring tool is very easy. and you can rent the flare tool. add some rubber clamps, your good. another point, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE AN IGNITION BOX. you can run a vacumm advance distributor with one. if you want to make it really easy, go with a HEI diz. i wire hook up to the power, one out to the tach. these diz's are >$90.
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:51 PM   #35
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forgot to mention. i bought the cheapest carb i could, just somthing to learn how carbs work, get some experience, and break in my motor. i will be buying a higher end carb, and most likely doing an e-85 set up this winter. my fuel system is capable, just gotta swap the carb.
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