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Old 04-29-2010, 07:41 AM   #1
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flow numbers on holley systemax

im very disapointed...

flowed the heads (tw) and intake holley systemax
at the local machine shop yesterday.....

heads were good at 305cfm at 28" 600 lift

* lower only bolted to the heads 265cfm...
it has been port matched and casting flaws removed and
a little polish work,,not alot...
HOLY CRAP IT SUCKS...
THE UPPER IS SUPPOSE TO BE THE RESTRICTION...
NOT THE LOWER..

* upper/lower/1"spacer bolted to the heads still 265cfm
no restriction their ...that was a surprise...
but its been opened up to 90mm and the bolt inside removed
along with the casting restriction in the middle aswell..
and alittle smoothing and port matching on bottom
so it matches the lower and custom aluminum spacer..

it amazes me people put them on out the box and go fast....
i think it should be better than that...

my cobra lower ported/polished went 291cfm on same heads
thru the upper/lower 280...cfm
SAME FLOW BENCH...SAME HEADS...

MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION.....??????

WHAT INTAKE IS GONNA PERFORM BETTER...??????

IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT FLOW NUMBERS...

YOU WONT PICK THE HOLLEY!!!!!
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:15 AM   #2
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Super victor.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:45 AM   #3
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You learned a lesson. The Holley lower is designed after the truck lower and shares the same #1 & #5 dog leg as any Ford intake. Now, based on the success of this intake right out of the box, I guess static flow numbers are not the end-all be-all of judging how an intake will perform - whatya think? I am mildly surprised the flow did not take some level of hit once the upper was added.

It's all about the combination of parts. I know a fellow who had a ported RPMI intake that flowed 275 cfm and he used that intake on AFR 205 308cfm heads with a YSI blower making 847RWHP that ran 8.90s @ 150+mph. When he tried a box intake he lost 3 mph and ET. Now, does that mean the box was not better - yes, but only for the parts he had. He is now doing a cam and tune change to see if he can best the previous combo with a box.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:20 AM   #4
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Quote:
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Super victor.
did not have a super to test

we flow tested a victor jr. new out of the box with my heads also

it was 278cfm untouched..
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:47 AM   #5
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very well put...t moss

im hopeing for a good outcome...even tho the numbers are down
on flow and still hopeing for some rpm out of this intake and nice tq curve

i know it will work with my ysi...combo..hands down no question

but gonna run it...n/a
for now...till dart block is ready..

so hope it, the holley,
will out perform my cobra lower wth the cartech style box upper..

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Old 04-29-2010, 11:20 AM   #6
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Ported for a 1262 size port, the Vic Jr will flow 330+cfm average

The SV will flow 360+ cfm

Just keep in mind that staic flow numbers are closley tied to the minimum cross section size. The larger the hole, the more air it will flow. Totally ignores the runner length and plenum size impact to name two.
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:16 PM   #7
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[QUOTE=tmoss;9759666]You learned a lesson. The Holley lower is designed after the truck lower and shares the same #1 & #5 dog leg as any Ford intake. Now, based on the success of this intake right out of the box, I guess static flow numbers are not the end-all be-all of judging how an intake will perform - whatya think? I am mildly surprised the flow did not take some level of hot once the upper was added.

well we even flowed the straightest runner #3 i think...no diff in flow

how can the holley be over 300cfm ported....i dont see it happening ?
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmoss View Post
You learned a lesson. The Holley lower is designed after the truck lower and shares the same #1 & #5 dog leg as any Ford intake. Now, based on the success of this intake right out of the box, I guess static flow numbers are not the end-all be-all of judging how an intake will perform - whatya think?
Lost about 5 CFM bolting this lower onto a set of PS style ported AFR 185 heads... The 306 went mid to high tens N/A....

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Old 04-29-2010, 01:00 PM   #9
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looks good , but what did they flow...to go that fast...?????

i know lots of other details...to run that class and go that fast

but head flow, where does it need to be thru the intake ?

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Old 04-29-2010, 01:00 PM   #10
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All I see are a few sheets of tin foil....wheres the intake?
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Old 04-29-2010, 04:22 PM   #11
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There r holley systemax ll intakes that have been cut, full race ported and rewelded that flow over 300cfm.

a full race ported TFS-R can flow 325cfm, a victor full race 350cfm.
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Old 04-29-2010, 05:21 PM   #12
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flow #s and dyno #s dont always correlate into track #s....somthing that is not often mentioned on here is average horsepower and rate of acceleration....mening that given the same peak HP #s some combos will accelerate to a specific rpm much quicker under a load...examples can really be seen in lap times from some of the cup cars they talk about it all the time that HP is not king...getting off the corner harder is what they were after, ive had examples from a truck motor built for kevin harvick about 3 years ago where one motor was down 30 hp to another but lap times were 2-3 tenths quicker and he said could definately feel a difference on corner exit and carried 2-3 more mph down the straights....moral of the story...hit the track then if your still dissapointed melt that manifold into a sweet ashtray or something
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Old 04-29-2010, 07:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Curtis View Post
Lost about 5 CFM bolting this lower onto a set of PS style ported AFR 185 heads... The 306 went mid to high tens N/A....
Use the Holley upper, Ed? Any work done to it?
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Old 04-29-2010, 07:04 PM   #14
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what baffles me is why doesn't Holley and other companies straighten out the damn dogleg on those 2 runners?
I know the distributor still causes an offset, but not the crooked runners.
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Old 04-29-2010, 07:27 PM   #15
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What Box intake did he test ??
I would assume the new TFS-R Box would have had a differnet outcome
I think most of the Tests with Box intake were of the older style
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmoss View Post
You learned a lesson. The Holley lower is designed after the truck lower and shares the same #1 & #5 dog leg as any Ford intake. Now, based on the success of this intake right out of the box, I guess static flow numbers are not the end-all be-all of judging how an intake will perform - whatya think? I am mildly surprised the flow did not take some level of hit once the upper was added.

It's all about the combination of parts. I know a fellow who had a ported RPMI intake that flowed 275 cfm and he used that intake on AFR 205 308cfm heads with a YSI blower making 847RWHP that ran 8.90s @ 150+mph. When he tried a box intake he lost 3 mph and ET. Now, does that mean the box was not better - yes, but only for the parts he had. He is now doing a cam and tune change to see if he can best the previous combo with a box.
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:00 PM   #16
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Use the Holley upper, Ed? Any work done to it?
we all know..their was plenty of work done to the upper.

the heads you used AFR 185... ED..
were they the raised 125.exh port race head...?

because the afr 185 out of the box (according to the web site)
says they are 277 on the intake port @600

that would lead me to believe the intake you posted
is only 277cfm.. although looks impressive

but on the raised exh port head from afr...the heads flow...292cfm
that tells me that the intake you ported would flow about... 287cfm

i may be way off base... due to the race class secrets

be nice to see you post some more info on that intake...
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Old 05-01-2010, 07:52 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93sn8k View Post
we all know..their was plenty of work done to the upper.ke...
I guess I'm clueless then because I didn't know..........
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:49 PM   #18
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I guess I'm clueless then because I didn't know..........
whts your point..??????

yes im assumeing he used the upper...
since PS classs rules require a long runner.

i thot he was refferring to darren hendrix old cobra combo

my bad...

maybe he wasnt at all..

thats why im asking him..!!! for more info...

now as far as the combo that he is refferring to...306 mid to high tens N/A

i know him and darren hendrix, did exactly that..!!!!

useing the holley upper n lower together

the upper was worked over very well

tmoss...

whats the best flow numbers you have seen out of the upper lower combo ???

we already know ed is not gonna tell what his lower will flow..

besides only slowing down 5cfm...bolted to ported afr 185 PS heads

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Old 05-02-2010, 07:59 PM   #19
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The 30 pound injectors and stock fuel rail shocked me going that fast!
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:20 AM   #20
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tmoss...

whats the best flow numbers you have seen out of the upper lower combo ???
Flow rate on a static bench is directly related to cross section. That being said, a 1250 mcsa size port maxes out for me at ~270cfm average total flow. Jump that section up to 1262 or 1262R and you can get to 300cfm. It takes a lot of work and sometimes welding to get there and do it right the larger the section you put in it.
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:39 PM   #21
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what is a 1262R...?

i thot 1262 was the biggest gasket made for these ports...
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:07 PM   #22
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it's larger than a 1262, 1262R = 1.4"x2.25" and it's too big to get into a GT40 lower really unless your prepared to weld a ton - makes no sense. My point was static flow is related directly to mcsa.
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:22 PM   #23
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The 30 pound injectors and stock fuel rail shocked me going that fast!
not to stray but on my s trim 331 stick car at 14lbs went 10.6 at 133mph on stock lines and rails with 60s a 255intank and a 255 inline at only 42 base fp tuned with a pms. car was tuned at 14 degrees total and 10.9 air/fuel. very safe never had any problems
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:29 PM   #24
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is that the gasket you would use on the fully ported lowers...

such as the holley and victor 5.0 stuff...?

my heads (tw) and intake (holley) are 1262 now....

i never new you could get a bigger gasket...

i prolly never needed it before

if the cross section is large enuff...then does the extra flow
come from the smoothing of the port surface..?

my ports on lower although are opened up..
they are still not perfectly smooth...
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:34 PM   #25
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I love my R series intake!!! I need to get around to race flow porting it! There might be alittle more ET and MPH left in it.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:32 AM   #26
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gonna just polish the rest of the holley intake ports..

guess i will find out on the track...

if holley is any faster...even tho it flows 25cfm avg. LESS..than the cobra lower/box combo


http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...neweng3062.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g.../neweng306.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g.../holley9-1.jpg
90mm t/b

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g.../holley4-1.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g.../holley3-1.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g.../holley2-1.jpg
gaskets ported aswell

...than the ported gt40 lower/cartech/ron anderson box upper

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...n8k/motot2.jpg

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Old 05-04-2010, 12:35 AM   #27
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That sure is a perdy motor
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Old 05-07-2010, 10:55 AM   #28
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That sure is a perdy motor
hope it runs as good as it looks...
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:08 AM   #29
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hope it runs as good as it looks...
I'm sure it will
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:31 AM   #30
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i ran the cobra at anderson ford motorsport dyno facility...

pretty happy..considering the 96 degree day wth terrible humidity...

made 383hp and 346 tq

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g.../cobradyno.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...dynosheet2.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...dynosheet3.jpg

best time slip from the track...this year

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...k/timeslip.jpg

not bad for 3450# cobra with full accessories

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...engine2010.jpg

gonna switch to a victor 5.0 set up and try to go low 11s N/A

hopefully my solid roller will shine then...
i wanna make over 400 to the tires...
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