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Old 12-29-2009, 11:41 PM   #36
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To da Haters

I can verify that all said about Jon Browns car is true, b/c I am an employee at HED and I have assisted Kevin and Pete with the Black Coupes build since nearly day one. I can tell you this Jons car is one a million b/c he dedicated the car to our abuse and testing and tuning with all intentions of having the baddest stock bottom mustang out here.

Anyone thats really concerned about whether or not or claims are true can feel free to stop by the shop and hang out while we remove the old used and abused 302 from the coupe.

We have ran numerous 275 races with this setup, even more test n tune passes, and countless dyno time. All in all this car has been consistently running 5.80-6.0 for the last two years

Car is still running although we did hurt something the last go around at the track, motor, headgaskets...We dunno yet. Although there isn't much reason to diagnose the problem b/c we have a Dart block 347 motor going in the coupe for next season.

Also I think it made a bit more than 815rwhp the last outting


Basic run down
AFR Heads
TF Box Intake
Stock bottom end
Aeromotive Fuel System
UPR Suspension
Power Glide with Greg Slack Converter
HP turbo Kit, t76 until the last race we upgraded to 88
Fast Engine Management
With M/T 275 DR's @ 3200

Its all in the tune
And BTW, this is BnBlownSaleen on most all the other forums we use.

Thanks, Roland

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Old 12-30-2009, 12:20 AM   #37
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the black coupe is the ####!!!!!!!!! HED to the front.. whats up Roland...
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:31 AM   #38
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Flame me, bash me, whatever, but I am raising the flag on this one

Everyone know that the stock BLOCK in a 5.0 goes to #### at about 450-500 Hp, so how are these guys doing almost TWICE that? It's all in the "tune'? I don't see it happening. Do it twice, then I will believe it. Some video of it ON the car, making the dyno, then going to the car and showing markings on the block. I really just do not believe it. If so, then I am sending my stock 2v 4.6 longblock car over there and getting a t76 to make 750 rwhp.

Why would someone BS? So they can promote their company. They can say "HOLY CRAP WE HAVE DONE THINGS NEVER DONE BEFORE". Great promotional item for your company. I know people will say "I have seen it with my own eyes" but until I have seen it with MY OWN EYES, I am still calling bull####. It makes less sense than a peso...
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:30 AM   #39
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Flame me, bash me, whatever, but I am raising the flag on this one

Everyone know that the stock BLOCK in a 5.0 goes to #### at about 450-500 Hp, so how are these guys doing almost TWICE that? It's all in the "tune'? I don't see it happening. Do it twice, then I will believe it. Some video of it ON the car, making the dyno, then going to the car and showing markings on the block. I really just do not believe it. If so, then I am sending my stock 2v 4.6 longblock car over there and getting a t76 to make 750 rwhp.

Why would someone BS? So they can promote their company. They can say "HOLY CRAP WE HAVE DONE THINGS NEVER DONE BEFORE". Great promotional item for your company. I know people will say "I have seen it with my own eyes" but until I have seen it with MY OWN EYES, I am still calling bull####. It makes less sense than a peso...
If its a miracle in your eyes, stop by your local airline and buy a plane ticket. Hell, Bring your camera so you can document and I will personally pick you up from the airport if you promise to Post the pics and video

We have nothing to hide. What do you think the motor is? What are we hiding here?? I promise you this, if it was anything else(stoker etc) it would be going a lot faster.... And with the new motor going in it WILL!
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:02 AM   #40
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LOLZ the west coast is hating
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:12 AM   #41
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If its a miracle in your eyes, stop by your local airline and buy a plane ticket. Hell, Bring your camera so you can document and I will personally pick you up from the airport if you promise to Post the pics and video

We have nothing to hide. What do you think the motor is? What are we hiding here?? I promise you this, if it was anything else(stoker etc) it would be going a lot faster.... And with the new motor going in it WILL!
Joyrider, there you go, you have personal invite to check it out with your own eyes.

450-500 is a generally consensus. There have been many that made it to 600 HP, generally with turbos. The turbo is not as hard on the engine as a sudden extra 150 horses or an extra couple lbs spinning at 6000 rpm off the front of the crank.

It sounds like they snuck up on the tune, like they said earlier. Sounds like they had a good tune and suspension on the car to make it work. Then they turned up the wick, got a little greedy (they had a new shortblock ready to go in) and tried to push it. Now the motor is hurt, they have offered you a chance to take a look at it.
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fine. I'm out. I don't need this place.
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:14 AM   #42
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If its a miracle in your eyes, stop by your local airline and buy a plane ticket. Hell, Bring your camera so you can document and I will personally pick you up from the airport if you promise to Post the pics and video

We have nothing to hide. What do you think the motor is? What are we hiding here?? I promise you this, if it was anything else(stoker etc) it would be going a lot faster.... And with the new motor going in it WILL!
Well I was born and raised in NC around the Asheville, Black Mtn, Marion & Spruce Pine Area. I normally make a trip up every year to see the kin folk.

If you would pm me the exact address in NC for HED along with a phone number I would like to drop by next year when I make the trip up to check out the shop and meet these guys.

Dale McPeters
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:23 AM   #43
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Flame me, bash me, whatever, but I am raising the flag on this one
.

Why would someone BS? So they can promote their company. They can say "HOLY CRAP WE HAVE DONE THINGS NEVER DONE BEFORE". Great promotional item for your company. I know people will say "I have seen it with my own eyes" but until I have seen it with MY OWN EYES, I am still calling bull####. It makes less sense than a peso...
While we are at it...

Why would we BS??? Thats a damn good question.. First let me tell you the name of the company Harrel ENGINE & Dyno. We make most of our living by building Race motors. OK? So, what good is it for us to tell you how fast you can go on a STOCK bottem end??? If anything its taking money away from that side of the buisness. Sure it may be a good Publicity for what we can do as far as tuning, but what do you think? Are we going to get rich tunning the Fastest Stock bottem ends in the world???? Doubt it! Don't see myself retireing early, do you?

BTW, I don't think any employee from HED ever said it was the fastest stock shortblock 5.0. Although, we can't confirm or deny that it is. All we know is its fast ass ####, and haters like yourself are expected.

And I don't know who you have been talking to about you stock block limits but apperantly they know as much as you... very little. We have seen way higher numbers than that on stockshort block daily drivers, with a s-trims..... and b-trims.
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:15 AM   #44
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Well I was born and raised in NC around the Asheville, Black Mtn, Marion & Spruce Pine Area. I normally make a trip up every year to see the kin folk.

If you would pm me the exact address in NC for HED along with a phone number I would like to drop by next year when I make the trip up to check out the shop and meet these guys.

Dale McPeters
1301 cranford rd Denton NC 27239 or
also have a sbf with hemi heads
made over 2250hp
cant post my vids
Or a superjunk was fast with a 98 and highports and an igloo intercooler years ago
cant post my vid

or a canam atv motor that made around 300

same

Just a few items to show you HED is not some back woods shop with high claims but no merit
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:17 AM   #45
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InAmustang is this the correct place > http://www.bigdyno.com/index.html <

Harrell Engine & Dyno
1301 Cranford Rd
Denton, NC 27239-8952

Let me know.

Thanks,
Dale McPeters

Well someone posted before I could....
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:48 AM   #46
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InAmustang is this the correct place > http://www.bigdyno.com/index.html <

Harrell Engine & Dyno
1301 Cranford Rd
Denton, NC 27239-8952

Let me know.

Thanks,
Dale McPeters

Well someone posted before I could....
Yes, Thank You. I must have missed your post earlier.

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Old 12-30-2009, 10:54 AM   #47
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This thread has inspired the owner and some of at HED crew, to not give up on the ole Stocker Shocker just yet. Kevin and myself, plan to go to Jon's house over the weekend and see if we can find the problem. We still are not sure if we hurt the motor, a head gasket, or a possible boost leak. If something that can be easily fixed we plan to take it back to the track, but this time we're going to junk the added weight and trade the drag radials for some 10.5 slicks. Going to try and keep everyone updated, so if we have to remove the heads or anything I will be sure to snap some pics and I will be sure to let yall know when we take it back to the track.
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Old 12-30-2009, 11:31 AM   #48
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This thread has inspired the owner and some of at HED crew, to not give up on the ole Stocker Shocker just yet. Kevin and myself, plan to go to Jon's house over the weekend and see if we can find the problem. We still are not sure if we hurt the motor, a head gasket, or a possible boost leak. If something that can be easily fixed we plan to take it back to the track, but this time we're going to junk the added weight and trade the drag radials for some 10.5 slicks. Going to try and keep everyone updated, so if we have to remove the heads or anything I will be sure to snap some pics and I will be sure to let yall know when we take it back to the track.
I along with everyone else in this thread would like pictures of this I am sure.....

By the way did I miss where it was mentioned in any of the posts here and on the other forum what exact block is being used? Meaning is it a mexican or early style block or is it truely a stock 5.0 production thin wall casting?

And by the way tell Pete I will give him a call later today after I get out of meetings to discuss me dropping by next year to buy him a cup of coffee.

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Old 12-30-2009, 12:14 PM   #49
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So why would I spend my time and money to watch you all pull an engine? That doesn't prove anything! Anyone can drop a stock shortblock motor into a car, take a picture, pull it out and put in a better motor, take it to the track, and run 5.8x in the quarter. And how come the only picture of the engine bay, the block can barely been seen in it? And what exactly IS the setup? How much boost? Fuel setup? Exact heads/cam/intake setup? Dyno graph?

And like I said, if you are so confident in these numbers and this car, why don't you do it again and document it well this time? I know you are an engine company building engines for a living, but a stock 5.0 shortblock is a dime a dozen. Pick one up, put it into the exact same setup, and let it eat.

And why would you BS? You're name is harrell engine & DYNO, and everyone that says it is in the tune, so I am sure you use that dyno for tuning right? So why not promote the other aspect of said company with something like an 815 RWHP stock shortblock 5.0?

I am not saying it isn't possible, just highly unlikely, because hey, even a blind squirrel finds a nut.
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:47 PM   #50
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So does that mean you are a hater or just a nonbeliever?
I am in no way a hater.. I want to believe.. but I also know how weak stock 5.0 pistons and rods are.. not to mention the blocks with no girdle are pretty damn weak to.

My car made 431 real hp to the wheels using a 67mm turbo (HP performance kit) through a powerglide. It does have a built bottom end (347 stroker).. I just can't fathom making twice that power with my motor through a glide and then you add the stock pistons and rods. I guess I spent my money in the wrong areas.

My only other question is how much boost is this car seeing?

Makes me want to go out and buy a FAST and 76mm turbo and shoot for 600hp on the stock block. Should be a walk in the park next to what you guys have done
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:16 PM   #51
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As hard as it is to believe it I still do. Turbo's can make some serious power. Great effort guy's.
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:27 PM   #52
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So why would I spend my time and money to watch you all pull an engine? That doesn't prove anything! Anyone can drop a stock shortblock motor into a car, take a picture, pull it out and put in a better motor, take it to the track, and run 5.8x in the quarter. And how come the only picture of the engine bay, the block can barely been seen in it? And what exactly IS the setup? How much boost? Fuel setup? Exact heads/cam/intake setup? Dyno graph?

And like I said, if you are so confident in these numbers and this car, why don't you do it again and document it well this time? I know you are an engine company building engines for a living, but a stock 5.0 shortblock is a dime a dozen. Pick one up, put it into the exact same setup, and let it eat.

And why would you BS? You're name is harrell engine & DYNO, and everyone that says it is in the tune, so I am sure you use that dyno for tuning right? So why not promote the other aspect of said company with something like an 815 RWHP stock shortblock 5.0?

I am not saying it isn't possible, just highly unlikely, because hey, even a blind squirrel finds a nut.
WoW, after reading this post I can see your more ignorant than I orginally thought. 5.8x's in the quarter You don't get out much do you???? We would need way more than 815rwhp for that. You probably still don't get it, do you??

BTW, reread my last post, we may just do that. And seriously, you think we would pull a motor out, stick a stock motor in, and then put another built motor in it. I don't mind working but I don't like to do anything more than needed.

And yes we have a dyno, but most of the tunning was done at the track.

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Old 12-30-2009, 01:54 PM   #53
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WoW, after reading this post I can see your more ignorant than I orginally thought. 5.8x's in the quarter You don't get out much do you???? We would need way more than 815rwhp for that. You probably still don't get it, do you??

BTW, reread my last post, we may just do that. And seriously, you think we would pull a motor out, stick a stock motor in, and then put another built motor in it. I don't mind working but I don't like to do anything more than needed.

And yes we have a dyno, but most of the tunning was done at the track.
My apologies, I knew it was a 5.8x in the eighth, just a mistype on my part. I know it would require a HELL of a lot more money and power to go 5.8x in the quarter, I am not retarded.

I still want to know what the full setup of the car is, you seem to be dodging this point every time it gets asked...

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Old 12-30-2009, 02:16 PM   #54
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You know what... I'll leave this alone if you get me a picture with the engine in car, block stamping on the block IN THE CAR, and oil pan off the engine IN THE CAR to show internals...

Shouldn't be difficult to do since you are gonna be tearing into it anyways right?
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Old 12-30-2009, 03:17 PM   #55
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You know what... I'll leave this alone if you get me a picture with the engine in car, block stamping on the block IN THE CAR, and oil pan off the engine IN THE CAR to show internals...

Shouldn't be difficult to do since you are gonna be tearing into it anyways right?
They will probably video the tear down...Just to quiet the haters
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Old 12-30-2009, 03:24 PM   #56
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I am not retarded.

I still want to know what the full setup of the car is, you seem to be dodging this point every time it gets asked...
Could have fooled me..

Not dodging anything, I was just going to try and to get to the data logger to more exact #'s for boost referance. But since you ARE impatient.

With the T-76 we saw 21-22lbs went 5.85 1/8 MILES @ 7100RPM
With the 88 we saw 28-29lbs went 5.80 1/8 MILES @ 7700RPM

Solid flat tappet cam

Stock style suspention, factory rear springs, qa1 adjustable schock up front.

Anything else????

And IF a HEAD needs to come off I will snap pics, no need to remove the oil pan unless the motor is hurt beyond repair, if thats case it will get a photoshoot aswell.
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Old 12-30-2009, 03:35 PM   #57
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And I don't know who you have been talking to about you stock block limits but apperantly they know as much as you... very little. We have seen way higher numbers than that on stockshort block daily drivers, with a s-trims..... and b-trims.
hell i made 625 rwhp through a 5 speed on a small p trim 67mm turbo with stock bottom end and stock cam, set of box stock holley 2.02 heads and a systemax intake. made that on 18psi with stock lines and rails with 1 intank 255lph pump tuned by me with an AEM EMS. that lasted for a year for me until a rod let loose on the highway on a 4th gear pull. i beat the crap out of it and it held.

HED is running 1/8th mile and through a glide and doesnt put the strain on components like a 5speed in the 1/4 mile. id really like to know the setup as well. the bottom end doesnt make the power its all in the combo.... stock heads vs nice aluminum ones will produce more power if thats all that is changed. high flowing heads, high flowing intake and matching cam with a 76mm will make some serious power.

hell i know of one car with a simple 76mm combo on 15psi pump gas that goes 9.7x at 138mph and weighs in at 3400+ on a 8.2 2bolt block.
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Old 12-30-2009, 03:42 PM   #58
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Sounds good to me. I am really not trying to hate on anyone here, it is something that I don't believe by word of mouth, and I need a little more proof to show this is actually happening. Make it sound like a terrible thing for just asking questions. If there is more potential in these motors than what was once believed, might be a relief for some people out there.
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Old 12-30-2009, 04:51 PM   #59
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I know it is hard to believe . I have a set up very similar except i have a dart block .When I heard he had a stock bottom end I was like yea BS they expect us to believe that $7%X ! So the next time at the track I went over and checked it out for myself.. Its not a a dart or a Mexican block I can assure you as I have had both . It looks just like a stock block to me and Ive looked more than once the last time being the day it trapped 128 mph. I'm not affiliated with HED nor have I ever had them work on my stuff or tune it. But I can tell you from what Ive seen come out of that shop they are the real deal. Believe me when I tell you they dont need to make false claims .

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Old 12-30-2009, 05:20 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Joyrider564 View Post
Sounds good to me. I am really not trying to hate on anyone here, it is something that I don't believe by word of mouth, and I need a little more proof to show this is actually happening. Make it sound like a terrible thing for just asking questions. If there is more potential in these motors than what was once believed, might be a relief for some people out there.
I understand not taking someone's word and if HED had set out to build the worlds fastest shortblock more pics along the way would have been taken. But what happened in this build was that John wanted a fast car but was limited by budget as most people are and the shortblock in this case was one place money was not spent and funds were low. So Pete who owns HED did what he could with what he had because John just wanted to go fast with what he had. Only later when the car started running fast was when a few employees of HED started helping John donating tunning time to John to make the car faster. They did this not for shop notice but because they thought it was cool how fast the car had become. Plus HED mostly does machine work and with it given location does not expect many car coming in for just a tune.
Sorry for the long post
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Old 12-30-2009, 06:08 PM   #61
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There's a local guy here that is running 5.90s with a stock block and crank(V1 T-Trim), he's on his second stock block and has gotten lucky as his first block lasted about 5 years. Some people seem to be very lucky but i'm not one of them.
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:51 PM   #62
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Like I think I have already stated, I am tired of hearing word of mouth. I just want pictures and/or video. Something, anything other than words typed on a screen that show a stock SHORTBLOCK 5.0 running that time. Why? Because that is a faster time than what is usually heard of in a stock shortblock. You make it sound like a bad thing to ask for extra proof.
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:13 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Joyrider564 View Post
Like I think I have already stated, I am tired of hearing word of mouth. I just want pictures and/or video. Something, anything other than words typed on a screen that show a stock SHORTBLOCK 5.0 running that time. Why? Because that is a faster time than what is usually heard of in a stock shortblock. You make it sound like a bad thing to ask for extra proof.
Really!! and who are you that they need to impress????
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:27 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Joyrider564 View Post
Like I think I have already stated, I am tired of hearing word of mouth. I just want pictures and/or video. Something, anything other than words typed on a screen that show a stock SHORTBLOCK 5.0 running that time. Why? Because that is a faster time than what is usually heard of in a stock shortblock. You make it sound like a bad thing to ask for extra proof.
I am going to go out on a limb amd say you are an idiot. I know of several turbo stock bottom end cars running 5.90's and some have lasted several years at that power level. Just because someone accomplishes something you couldn't do doesn't make it impossible. Why would they go out of their way to prove something to someone across the country something when all of their local customers and potential customers already know the truth behind this car. Think about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:31 PM   #65
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I am going to go out on a limb amd say you are an idiot. I know of several turbo stock bottom end cars running 5.90's and some have lasted several years at that power level. Just because someone accomplishes something you couldn't do doesn't make it impossible. Why would they go out of their way to prove something to someone across the country something when all of their local customers and potential customers already know the truth behind this car. Think about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hahaha!!! thats funny, Im sure if he drug his JUNK up to HED Pete could make it alot faster!!! Some people know everything ol well..
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:41 PM   #66
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hmm........i wonder what the fastest stock shortblock ls1 is? grant you its lighter and has more cubes..
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:42 PM   #67
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hmm........i wonder what the fastest stock shortblock ls1 is? grant you its lighter and has more cubes..
IDK but I doubt it made much more power .
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:42 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyrider564 View Post
Like I think I have already stated, I am tired of hearing word of mouth. I just want pictures and/or video. Something, anything other than words typed on a screen that show a stock SHORTBLOCK 5.0 running that time. Why? Because that is a faster time than what is usually heard of in a stock shortblock. You make it sound like a bad thing to ask for extra proof.
Why is a 5.80-5.90 so hard to believe? that only equates into a low 10 sec 1/4 mile time and I can show you a bunch of stock block cars running in the 10s! Now what doesn't add up is his HP and ET doesn't jive, a high 5 sec 1/8 mile isn't near 800rwhp unless the car weighs 6000 lbs. LOL
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:44 PM   #69
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Why is a 5.80-5.90 so hard to believe? that only equates into a low 10 sec 1/4 mile time and I can show you a bunch of stock block cars running in the 10s! Now what doesn't add up is his HP and ET doesn't jive, a high 5 sec 1/8 mile isn't near 800rwhp unless the car weighs 6000 lbs. LOL
5.80's would put you low 9's in the qtr and the et is because it 60ft like a tank at 1.5-1.6.
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:47 PM   #70
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i can see it.........800 ponys ain't that hard to get with a hairdryer guys..
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