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Old 07-25-2009, 02:57 PM   #1
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347 stroker. Idle goes up and down and then stalls.( vids on pg2)

i run 42 pound injectors and a pmas maf caibrated for them. On cold starts the car will start up just fine and briefly come down to idle at around 900rpm and runs great. The problem is, soon as the car is heated up to operating temp and if you shut the car off and then start it again, the car will start up as normal and then the rpms will go up and down between 1500 rpm down to below 800 rpm and will stall out shortly after. Sounds like the IAC is trying to compensate so the car wont stall out but eventually it does. If i feather the throttle for about 30 secs to counter the stalling out, it will finally find its sweet spot and hold a steady 900rpm. The tuner was having this problem on wednesday. we were trying to nail this problem for an hour and a half. He finally just bumped the idle speed with the chip up to 850 and we got the car to start up like normal and stay running like normal. But, unfortunatley, after the car warms up and then you shut it down and restart it starts this BS again. Every sensor and everything under the hood is brand new and the base idle reset procedure has been done. New vac hoses and no vac leaks. Tps is good too. Any suggesttions? the computer is a a3m. The chip the tuner uses is a sniper chip. Next step is to sell this thing becuase i spent 4 hours this morning trying to get this thing to start normal. Im sick from sniffing exhaust fumes

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Old 07-25-2009, 03:36 PM   #2
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Dude I had the exact same problem with the "hunting/bouncing idle". And I finally got it fixed. But it took a while for me to do.

For me the key was to find the right balance between the position of the TPS sensor and idle set screw being set properly. The Chilton manual , Section 2-16, has the procedure for adjusting the idle set screw. It says "you can't change the idle speed with the set screw on systems with a TPS". And this is true but you do set the base starting point for the your throttle. So get the Idle set screw setup properly and the TPS in the correct position to reflect where the throttle plate really is.

I had to do a couple things.

0) set the Idle set screw 1st. after you have it set properly. clear the EEC by pulling the battery cable and stepping on the brake pedal for 10 seconds. Stepping on teh brake pedal just pulls the voltage out of the system quicker by trying to light up the taillights.

There is a procedure for clearing the old idle info the starting the car so it relearns the new Idle. But it escapes me right now. It is really simple though. Something like "Start the car, let it run for 60 seconds, turn it off again the restart. for atleast 20 seconds." Somehting weird like that.

1) get a Digital multi meter hooked up to the TPS so you can monitor the voltage while you adjust the TPS position and adjust the Idle set screw.

2) get a tach hooked up in the engine bay so you can see the RPMs while working. This is not a necessary step, but it keeps you from having to walk around and look at the Tach in the cabin.

3) read this article fordfuelinjectionDOTcom/?p=30 (sorry I cant post the actual link). It gave me the info I needed to set the TPS in the right position based on voltage measurements. I did most of my TPS settings with the KOEO (key on, engine off).

I had to measure my TPS voltage with the throttle in the idle/closed position and then I had to block the throttle open into the WOT position and measure again . After I did that I had to loosen the TPS screws and make slight adjustments to the TPS position until I got the correct voltages for Idle and WOT.

Like I said. It's kinda of a PITA to fix this issue. But you can totally do it. Ive dont it to my '86 stang several times after working on it. And I've done it on a few other Stangs. It seems to work every time. But it usually take me 30 minutes to an hour. Depending on how long it's been since the last time I did it. Last time I did it to my stang was just about 2 years ago and I have not had an issue with the hunting idle since then.

All of this assumes that all your other sensors are functioning properly.

hope this helps bro. good luck.
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Old 07-25-2009, 03:59 PM   #3
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http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,1031.0.html
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Old 07-25-2009, 05:43 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aod109 View Post
Dude I had the exact same problem with the "hunting/bouncing idle". And I finally got it fixed. But it took a while for me to do.

For me the key was to find the right balance between the position of the TPS sensor and idle set screw being set properly. The Chilton manual , Section 2-16, has the procedure for adjusting the idle set screw. It says "you can't change the idle speed with the set screw on systems with a TPS". And this is true but you do set the base starting point for the your throttle. So get the Idle set screw setup properly and the TPS in the correct position to reflect where the throttle plate really is.

I had to do a couple things.

0) set the Idle set screw 1st. after you have it set properly. clear the EEC by pulling the battery cable and stepping on the brake pedal for 10 seconds. Stepping on teh brake pedal just pulls the voltage out of the system quicker by trying to light up the taillights.

There is a procedure for clearing the old idle info the starting the car so it relearns the new Idle. But it escapes me right now. It is really simple though. Something like "Start the car, let it run for 60 seconds, turn it off again the restart. for atleast 20 seconds." Somehting weird like that.

1) get a Digital multi meter hooked up to the TPS so you can monitor the voltage while you adjust the TPS position and adjust the Idle set screw.

2) get a tach hooked up in the engine bay so you can see the RPMs while working. This is not a necessary step, but it keeps you from having to walk around and look at the Tach in the cabin.

3) read this article fordfuelinjectionDOTcom/?p=30 (sorry I cant post the actual link). It gave me the info I needed to set the TPS in the right position based on voltage measurements. I did most of my TPS settings with the KOEO (key on, engine off).

I had to measure my TPS voltage with the throttle in the idle/closed position and then I had to block the throttle open into the WOT position and measure again . After I did that I had to loosen the TPS screws and make slight adjustments to the TPS position until I got the correct voltages for Idle and WOT.

Like I said. It's kinda of a PITA to fix this issue. But you can totally do it. Ive dont it to my '86 stang several times after working on it. And I've done it on a few other Stangs. It seems to work every time. But it usually take me 30 minutes to an hour. Depending on how long it's been since the last time I did it. Last time I did it to my stang was just about 2 years ago and I have not had an issue with the hunting idle since then.

All of this assumes that all your other sensors are functioning properly.

hope this helps bro. good luck.
thank you for all that info. i will try this again tomorrow.right now i dont want to see my car lol. any info is appreciated
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Old 07-25-2009, 05:46 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by PeteCleary View Post
that is the procedure i used several times today and i have a printed copy in the garage. It works. like i said, i does not have this condition at cold start. It this condition will only keep happening for a bout 30 seconds on a warm start. If i keep in the case to counter it for thirty seconds so it doesnt stall out, it will stop doing it
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:47 PM   #6
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Your tuner needs to pull out start up fuel so it won't surge on hot starts. Super easy fix if you had a pms.
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Old 07-25-2009, 10:15 PM   #7
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Thx Pete. that was the procedure I was searching for and could not find a link to. Of course I have it saved on teh PC that crapped out a few months ago. Looks like I need ot print it out.
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Old 07-26-2009, 04:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
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Your tuner needs to pull out start up fuel so it won't surge on hot starts. Super easy fix if you had a pms.
anybody else have this condition? I will let him know. Is there anything i could tell the guy possibly. A certain parameter or what the ideal start up fuel amount should be?
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Old 07-27-2009, 12:55 AM   #9
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1)Min maf voltage is not low enough.
2)TB air flow is incorrect
3)transfer function is inaccurate at low air flows.
4)Load was not scaled properly
5)OL fuel vs ECT is too rich for too long
6)some other stuff I'm missing off the top of my head.

There are NO universal numbers that I could give to you that would work,,,,,,,,,Need to datalog changes you make to narrow the tune down.
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Old 07-27-2009, 01:05 PM   #10
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TPS module is bad.
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Old 07-27-2009, 02:12 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post
1)Min maf voltage is not low enough.
2)TB air flow is incorrect
3)transfer function is inaccurate at low air flows.
4)Load was not scaled properly
5)OL fuel vs ECT is too rich for too long
6)some other stuff I'm missing off the top of my head.

There are NO universal numbers that I could give to you that would work,,,,,,,,,Need to datalog changes you make to narrow the tune down.
I think i just need to save up and by a anderson pms tuner huh. I have spent too much money over the years going to get a custom chip burned on the dyno. Can you do these things with a pms?
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Old 07-27-2009, 02:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
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TPS module is bad.
i have 3 of them which are all brand new. i have a motorcraft, autozone and napa sensor. I have tried all three with the same results
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:12 PM   #13
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I may have read over this but have you tried replacing the IAC motor its self?
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:43 PM   #14
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I may have read over this but have you tried replacing the IAC motor its self?
yeah, i have 2 of those as well. one is new and the other is old but they both yeild the same results. i have been meaning to try a few more things with the base idle but its too dam hot out to be messing with the car. When its too hot and humid and things dont go my way, i tend to start throwing things around the garage
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Old 07-27-2009, 04:03 PM   #15
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Take your chip out and try.
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Old 07-27-2009, 04:07 PM   #16
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I think i just need to save up and by a anderson pms tuner huh. I have spent too much money over the years going to get a custom chip burned on the dyno. Can you do these things with a pms?
You have a chip now ? or you dont want to spend the money on getting it tuned correctly or what ?
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Old 07-27-2009, 04:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Take your chip out and try.
ill try that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 93GRNLX View Post
You have a chip now ? or you dont want to spend the money on getting it tuned correctly or what ?
yeah, i have a sniper chip. thats what the tuner uses.
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:40 PM   #18
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Quote:
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I think i just need to save up and by a anderson pms tuner huh. I have spent too much money over the years going to get a custom chip burned on the dyno. Can you do these things with a pms?
I know nothing about the PMS, I use a tweecer.
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:04 PM   #19
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Subscribing, this is relative to my interests.
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:24 PM   #20
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Another thing to consider is the Plate that goes between the IAC and TB. I have one and it works great. Takes a bit of tinkering though.
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:34 PM   #21
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Yup, those air bypass plates are a great cheap fix, just don't like the bandaid fix. Each to their own.
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Old 07-27-2009, 08:10 PM   #22
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In the tuners I'd add the Moates QuarterHorse as an option. Just my .02
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Old 07-27-2009, 08:13 PM   #23
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I ran a 347 stroker 4 years w/o a custom tune. The chip will not cure huning.
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Old 07-27-2009, 08:48 PM   #24
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I had the same problem till my car was tuned. The tuner explained to me that the factory idle is like 650, so even after you set your base idle, and then your TPS if your motor wont idle at 650 there will alway be a trade off.

In my case the tuner reset my base idle to 850 which is what the motor seemed to like, then he reset the TPS, and then changed the ECM through my chip from the factory 650 to 850 to match everything else. After the tune the idle holds at about 1200 cold for about 30 seconds or so then idles down to 850 holds there. On a warm start up it goes right to 850 and stays there.

Before the tune I had much of the same problems that you have. All I could do untill the tune was to set my idle to like 1200 so it wouldnt die by dipping to low, then it had a hanging idle. I went through all the procedures properly, and all parts wokred normally. It wasnt untill the idle setting in the ECM was changed that everything was perfect.

The tuner said that if your car wont idle smoothly with the IAC disconnected near the factory setting there will be some trade off.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:03 PM   #25
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Quote:
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I ran a 347 stroker 4 years w/o a custom tune. The chip will not cure huning.

there you have it............shortthrow,,,,,,better get a better 347, the one you have is no good.
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Old 07-28-2009, 01:56 PM   #26
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I have that stupid adjuster plate. it works but cause the idle to hang. i dont like that damn thing. The condition is still presnt with it though. I do realize that a tune wouldnt cure the problem or make the car run any better but anything was worth a try. HEre is the latest : i pulled codes. With the key on engine off, i get code 15. I researched that doing a search on here and people say that is normal with a chip. without a chip, they say the computer is bad. With the engine running, i get a bunch of emmisions codes which i assume is normal becuase of have no emissions stuf. The only code that i got that struck me is code 19. I dont remember what it is and i could find one topic on here about it and there was only one answer in which the guy replied to it as the computer is fried and a new one is needed. Sometimes i have problems getting the damn computer to give me codes at all. Maybe the computer is bad. Where do i start? the computer is a a3m and you prolly cant get one anymore except for some used one that you dont know for sure is bad.
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Old 07-28-2009, 02:40 PM   #27
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Old 07-28-2009, 03:39 PM   #28
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I have a pms and love it. I had to take my iac adjust plate off for the pms to adjust properly. Just a question.... why do you need 42 pound injectors? Thoes sound awfully big.
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Old 07-28-2009, 04:52 PM   #29
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Old 07-28-2009, 09:21 PM   #30
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there you have it............shortthrow,,,,,,better get a better 347, the one you have is no good.
Don't comment indyazz unless u have something intelligent to say.
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:25 PM   #31
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Don't comment indyazz unless u have something intelligent to say.
Sorry, I ran a 347 for four years,, and it wouldn't run WITHOUT a tune.

That's about as intelligent as your comment, don't ya think?
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:50 PM   #32
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Have you ran the self tests?.... specially the KOER at op temp?.... setting the TPS will not fix that problem. BTW.... I would be working on a refund for that tune.......... what's the engine vacuum at idle? ... MAF SIG voltage?..... does the idle problem show if you leave the O2's disconnected?..... LUK
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Old 07-29-2009, 07:23 AM   #33
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Code 19 is a failure in the ECM reference voltage.
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Old 07-29-2009, 08:38 AM   #34
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Code 19 is a failure in the ECM reference voltage.

bad computer then possibly
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:37 AM   #35
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Your tuner needs to pull out start up fuel so it won't surge on hot starts. Super easy fix if you had a pms.
+1 that was the issue with my old 347 too.
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