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Old 05-24-2009, 12:33 PM   #71
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so what would that tell him(or I)

everything was hooked up when this happened.
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Old 05-24-2009, 04:59 PM   #72
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... do you really want to bypass the dashpot function?..... simple..... install a jumper to the white clutch pedal switch (force a permanent in-neutral condition to the ECM) + disconnect the VSS sensor (cause a code 29 failure)....
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Old 05-24-2009, 05:43 PM   #73
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Here is what I would try. Perform a base idle reset but try it at different rpm points. This will in theory adjust the IAC duty cycle at idle. May or may not help.

The dashpot function is normal. But are the rpm increases and/or duration not normal??
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Old 05-24-2009, 06:19 PM   #74
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hey guys i switched out my BAP for the 93 cobra one. Runs fine....except for my fan wire melting the fuse inline but anyways


so does that seem logical that a bad BAP sensor would cause surging and hanging idle all of a sudden?
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Old 05-25-2009, 05:36 PM   #75
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anyone know for sure that a bad BP sensor could cause the car to run rough?

they arent cheap so i was wanting to make 100% sure before i bought one.
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:31 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post
try driving with the spout out and the iac pluged in.
Indy, I'll give this a try and see what happens. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:57 AM   #77
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......My gas mileage appears to have gone up considerably with the IAC wire unplugged. My last tank fillup resulted in just over 25mpg. About the most I've ever seen with the car. I'll be filling it up again soon so I'll have another average to report.
This is part of my post from back on 22 May. I just filled up with "ever more expensive gas" yesterday . I only averaged 22.67mpg. The only difference in driving was a little bit of air conditioning usage. Not near enough to result in almost 3 mpg less mileage. My previous average must've been in error.

Now that I'm on a full tank again, I'm going to unplug the spout and plug the wire back into the IAC as Indy suggested. I'm going to pull the codes before I do anything and then I'll pull the codes again after the "plug/unplug!"

BTW, I'm also checking out this thread: What causes Hanging RPM's?

Post #37 is very, very interesting!
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:10 AM   #78
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On a trip up to Fripp Island, SC I had my car die on the interstate several times there and back. I replaced the TFI and the stator and the car is back up and running. After properly setting the timing with the spout out (factory 10° BTDC) I decided to plug the IAC wire back into the IAC and do some timing checks both with the spout out and in.

Timing with spout out: 10° BTDC
Timing with spout IN: about 12°-13° at idle


posted by Indy2000,
Quote:

post #68
try driving with the spout out and the iac pluged in.

post #70
spark is part of the idle strategy.
With the spout in and the IAC wire plugged in like factory stock, the idle speed hangs up when I blip the throttle in neutral in the driveway. It hangs at about 1300 then drops to 1000, hangs for a couple more seconds then finally slowly drops to about 850rpm. I got under the hood with the timing light and I could see the timing was up to about 17° at 1300rpm and then 15° at 1000rpm and then finally back down to about 12°-13° at an 850rpm idle.

I then unplugged the spout and kept the IAC wire plugged in like factory stock. When I blipped the throttle, the idle no longer hung up at 1300 or 1000rpm. It came down immediately when my foot came off the gas pedal. As expected, timing stayed right at 10° BTDC during all rpms.



What have I learned from all of this? It looks like its the TIMING that is causing the idle rpm problem!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps its time to think about defeating the dashpot function as described by Joel5.0 in post #72 ??????

Quote:
do you really want to bypass the dashpot function?..... simple..... install a jumper to the white clutch pedal switch (force a permanent in-neutral condition to the ECM) + disconnect the VSS sensor (cause a code 29 failure)....
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:27 AM   #79
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Its an option, but you may get some stalling when you push the clutch in while coming to a stop.
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:08 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyUAL91GT View Post
What have I learned from all of this? It looks like its the TIMING that is causing the idle rpm problem!!!!!!!!!
I found this out as well a few posts back when I made timing adjustments in my PMS on the car. I had WAY too much timing added at idle and it was causing the RPMs to hang bad. With your situation, what you are describing with the hanging really doesn't seem all that unusual, actually. I believe there needs to be some, or as the poster above wrote you may encounter stalling.

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Old 06-23-2009, 09:25 AM   #81
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posted by Scott88,
Quote:
....With your situation, what you are describing with the hanging really doesn't seem all that unusual, actually. I believe there needs to be some, or as the poster above wrote you may encounter stalling.

Scott

Thanks for the replies, guys. Just to reiterate since this thread is long running. I've owned the car since it was brand new and it never had this hanging idle speed issue until early last fall. It went away and then some time later, I got a huge vacuum leak. I fixed the vacuum leak but then the hanging idle speed issue came back.

Remember, it never had the hanging idle issue before early last fall. Perhaps the idle came down a little slowly but it sure didn't hang and it sure didn't take 10 seconds to come down to idle speed when coming to a stop light. Not only that but the idle speed is higher than it used to be before the problem started last fall.
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:30 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liljoe07 View Post
Its an option, but you may get some stalling when you push the clutch in while coming to a stop.
As far as stalling goes, I've been dealing with stalling quite a bit since I've been driving around with my IAC wire unplugged. It was okay when the weather was cool but now that its a million degrees, I'm running my frosty R134a a/c and its putting more load on the engine at stoplights. I was thinking that the IAC plugged back in and the dashpot defeated might give me better "anti-stalling" than I have right now with the IAC wire unplugged .
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Old 06-23-2009, 07:34 PM   #83
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wihtout dashpot you will stall everytime you de-clutch on decel.
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Old 06-23-2009, 07:47 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post
wihtout dashpot you will stall everytime you de-clutch on decel.
Indy, you're saying that a defeated dashpot will be more prone to stalling than an unplugged IAC? I've been driving with my IAC wire unplugged for about the last 5 months. Once the engine warms up, it never stalls when I depress the clutch and it doesn't stall at stoplights.

However, the a/c puts additional load on the engine and it has stalled a couple of times sitting at red lights.
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:13 PM   #85
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Yes,,,,,,the dashpot is there to allow for slow engine rpm decrease upon closed throttle.

I am starting to think that you have a crack.....block, head or intake.....

there is no way for it to idle at 850 rpm without the IAC let alone with the IAC.
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:29 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyUAL91GT View Post
Indy, you're saying that a defeated dashpot will be more prone to stalling than an unplugged IAC? I've been driving with my IAC wire unplugged for about the last 5 months. Once the engine warms up, it never stalls when I depress the clutch and it doesn't stall at stoplights.

However, the a/c puts additional load on the engine and it has stalled a couple of times sitting at red lights.
Dashpot function = IAC control function
IAC disconnected = dashpot function disabled
IAC disconnected = IAC "A/C idle up" function disabled

Bottom line.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyUAL91GT View Post
When I'm coming up to a stop sign, when I step on the clutch, the RPM will actually go up by about 200 RPM! After about 2 secs, it will drop to about 1100 and stay there until I come to a complete stop. Once I'm stopped, the idle will slow down to 900 and then finally to 750-800 RPM.
Is normal EEC controlled dashpot control "behavior".
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:36 PM   #87
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Yes,,,,,,the dashpot is there to allow for slow engine rpm decrease upon closed throttle.

I am starting to think that you have a crack.....block, head or intake.....

there is no way for it to idle at 850 rpm without the IAC let alone with the IAC.
The reason that I first started this thread was because of this:
Quote:
When I'm coming up to a stop sign, when I step on the clutch, the RPM will actually go up by about 200 RPM! After about 2 secs, it will drop to about 1100 and stay there until I come to a complete stop. Once I'm stopped, the idle will slow down to 900 and then finally to 750-800 RPM.

Its really chapping me off when I pull my foot off the gas and depress the clutch pedal to see the tach jump up 200 RPM .
With the IAC wire plugged in, this is what the engine does. It didn't do this before last fall.

The engine idle speed is about 850rpm with the IAC wire plugged in. If I unplug the IAC wire, idle rpm will be in the 650-700rpm range when fully warmed up.
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:51 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel5.0 View Post
Dashpot function = IAC control function
IAC disconnected = dashpot function disabled
IAC disconnected = IAC "A/C idle up" function disabled

Bottom line.........



Is normal EEC controlled dashpot control "behavior".
Joel, you're saying that the jump in rpm is normal behavior? Perhaps it is but I've owned this car since new and I don't recall seeing that rise in rpm until last fall. I'll admit that I don't have a good memory but I'm certain it didn't do that before.

I did quite a bit of testing yesterday and I posted what I saw in post #78. Specifically this:

Quote:
With the spout in and the IAC wire plugged in like factory stock, the idle speed hangs up when I blip the throttle in neutral in the driveway. It hangs at about 1300 then drops to 1000, hangs for a couple more seconds then finally slowly drops to about 850rpm. I got under the hood with the timing light and I could see the timing was up to about 17° at 1300rpm and then 15° at 1000rpm and then finally back down to about 12°-13° at an 850rpm idle.

I then unplugged the spout and kept the IAC wire plugged in like factory stock. When I blipped the throttle, the idle no longer hung up at 1300 or 1000rpm. It came down immediately when my foot came off the gas pedal. As expected, timing stayed right at 10° BTDC during all rpms.



What have I learned from all of this? It looks like its the TIMING that is causing the idle rpm problem!!!!!!!!!
It appears to me that timing is a key here. It's as if the EEC is commanding too much timing (resulting in increased rpm) when it shouldn't be.
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Old 06-23-2009, 10:23 PM   #89
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Hey guys, I just want to say thank you for all of your replies. I don't mean to sound argumentative with any of my posts. Sometimes its really hard to get the true meaning of typed words across to the internet recipient. Its why there are constant internet fights. It seems like I'm seeing more and more of that these days. Perhaps its the stress of our society?

Anyway, I'd just like to finally get to the bottom of this problem because it wasn't there before. I'm a very technical person (education, profession and personally) so I usually notice even smallest changes.

Once again to everyone, thank you for all of your inputs!

Danny
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Old 06-23-2009, 10:35 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyUAL91GT View Post
Joel, you're saying that the jump in rpm is normal behavior? Perhaps it is but I've owned this car since new and I don't recall seeing that rise in rpm until last fall. I'll admit that I don't have a good memory but I'm certain it didn't do that before.

I did quite a bit of testing yesterday and I posted what I saw in post #78. Specifically this:



It appears to me that timing is a key here. It's as if the EEC is commanding too much timing (resulting in increased rpm) when it shouldn't be.
What existed first?.... the chicken or the egg? ......

You are making conclusions based on a setup config that is not normal for the EEC (SPOUT removed = initial advance being checked or SPOUT circuit is open = failure code condition) OR.... did you know spark advance is RPM based (among other inputs).... not RPM control based on spark advance? .... which actually happens if the IAC is offline, within a working range.

BTW.... has it crossed your mind the possibility that when you didn't notice this rpm control detail, it may have been caused by a failure elsewhere, you weren't aware of (like a disconnected VSS)?

You have a computer with a program and preset working parameters, rpm control included and monitored. If you have such a setup with no rpm control failure codes showing (12 and/or 13 KOER).... the system is working within its designed threshold. Is the non presence of idle control failure codes a reason to fix an idle control problem
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:25 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel5.0 View Post
What existed first?.... the chicken or the egg? ......

You are making conclusions based on a setup config that is not normal for the EEC (SPOUT removed = initial advance being checked or SPOUT circuit is open = failure code condition) OR.... did you know spark advance is RPM based (among other inputs).... not RPM control based on spark advance? .... which actually happens if the IAC is offline, within a working range....
Yes, I knew this.

Quote:
BTW.... has it crossed your mind the possibility that when you didn't notice this rpm control detail, it may have been caused by a failure elsewhere, you weren't aware of (like a disconnected VSS)?
I'll never say that "something" is impossible but I've owned the car since 1991 and if I drove with a disconnected VSS, it connected itself after 17 years last fall. I've done all the work on this car so I know that no one else has tinkered with it. If the VSS is causing my idle speed to jump up when I depress the clutch pedal, what would be the results of me disconnecting it?

Quote:
You have a computer with a program and preset working parameters, rpm control included and monitored. If you have such a setup with no rpm control failure codes showing (12 and/or 13 KOER).... the system is working within its designed threshold. Is the non presence of idle control failure codes a reason to fix an idle control problem
When my IAC wire is plugged in, these are the codes that I get:

KOEO-----34 EVP voltage above closed
KOER-----34, 41 & 91 System reads lean passenger and driver's side

Cap, rotor, spark plugs and both O2s were changed out last fall after I started having the idle issues.

In addition to the very annoying increase in rpm when I depress the clutch, I also get high idle speeds of at least 850rpm and sometimes as much as 1000rpm while sitting at a red light. And to top it off, my gas mileage goes straight down the toilet. I lose about 3-4 mpg from the low 20's down to about 19 mpg.

The idle quality (not speed), however, is perfect. Just like a brand new car. There are no symptoms of a vacuum leak; no stumbling, hesitation, roughness, etc. I'm not saying that there isn't a vacuum leak, I'm just saying there are absolutely no "engine running" symptoms of a leak.

I know that you're saying that this idle speed is "normal." I know that there is programming in the ECU that may result in some of what I'm seeing. Due to the internet limitations, you can't see or experience what I am. I know how the car behaved before and I know that something changed last fall. I have another EFI manual transmission car and while it is comparing apples to oranges, it doesn't do what my '91 GT is now doing.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:54 AM   #92
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1. You have a system with failure codes that will cause it to go into FMEM (Failure Mode Effects Management) status.

2. Is code 34 caused by a faulty EVP sensor, or an EGR valve that is not sealing 100% in its closed position?...... if the latter is the cause, fuel mileage will go down the drain.

3. Lean codes present will cause the EEC to increase fuel trim correction constantly, another cause for fuel mileage to go snafu. Those are the failure codes or conditions that really need attention and solution in your case.

4. The input from the VSS is one of the key triggers for the dashpot function, any value above 6 MPH from the sensor = dashpot turned on, causing the EEC to use a fixed higher ISC duty cycle or preposition...... so are the inputs from the transmission gear switch and the clutch pedal switch. I have confirmed this to be correct many times on the field.

5. I know about the limitations of the internet, but when you encounter two cases (the dashpot function is also standard in OBD-II systems BTW) years ago, one in which a customer decided to spend >$400 trying to "solve" what is pre-programmed in the system, even after learning about it and demonstrated by causing a P1039 failure code + having access at the specific details of that part of the GUFx EEC logic..... ... I allowed him to exercise his right to pay and confirm it was true....... BTSTDTRT many times.

Bottom line.... you are trying to establish a relation between the dashpot function and fuel consumption however, the other failure codes (34, 41 & 91) are the ones that need attention. Why does MPG don't go that low when the ISC is disconnected?..... fuel trim under FMEM mode will not increase if RPM control is fixed.... IOW, you are providing the EEC a crutch to affect its fuel trim correction by causing another failure = lack of RPM control..... while allowing the real culprits of the problem to exist unattended.

Just a thought
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Old 06-24-2009, 11:35 AM   #93
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Joel, lots of good detailed information in your post. Since we're not sitting at a table discussing this face to face, I'm going to ask some questions so that I get a complete understanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel5.0 View Post
2. Is code 34 caused by a faulty EVP sensor, or an EGR valve that is not sealing 100% in its closed position?...... if the latter is the cause, fuel mileage will go down the drain.
If the EGR were not sealing 100%, would I get a rough idle? My idle quality is smooth as silk. I think I read about a test for the EVP but I can't remember where.

In one of your previous posts in another thread of mine you wrote,

"Anytime there's an EGR failure code logged, the ECM will delete (not actuate) the EGR and will not cause any driveability or idle control problems. In your case, looks like the EVP sensor is kaput."

Quote:
3. Lean codes present will cause the EEC to increase fuel trim correction constantly, another cause for fuel mileage to go snafu. Those are the failure codes or conditions that really need attention and solution in your case.
I understand the increase in fuel trim and I think that you're saying that I'm going to have to find out and know for 100% sure that there are no vacuum leaks, right? Both O2s are new Bosch units that I installed last fall after reading your advice (due to mileage at the time 111K+.)

Quote:
4. The input from the VSS is one of the key triggers for the dashpot function, any value above 6 MPH from the sensor = dashpot turned on, causing the EEC to use a fixed higher ISC duty cycle or preposition...... so are the inputs from the transmission gear switch and the clutch pedal switch. I have confirmed this to be correct many times on the field.
My idle rpm sticks at 1300 then goes down to 1100 then slowly drops to an 850rpm idle 3-5 secs later while I'm parked in my driveway. It must be another trigger setting off that dashpot function while I'm not moving, right? I think that in one of your previous posts, I read that the clutch switch may have something to do with it as well.


Quote:
Bottom line.... you are trying to establish a relation between the dashpot function and fuel consumption however, the other failure codes (34, 41 & 91) are the ones that need attention. Why does MPG don't go that low when the ISC is disconnected?..... fuel trim under FMEM mode will not increase if RPM control is fixed.... IOW, you are providing the EEC a crutch to affect its fuel trim correction by causing another failure = lack of RPM control..... while allowing the real culprits of the problem to exist unattended.

Just a thought
This makes perfect sense and I understand it !
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:47 AM   #94
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UPDATE! UPDATE!

I'm bringing this thread back from the dead just to insert an update in case anyone does a "search" to help solve a similar problem. After suffering intermittent CEL flashes, with loss of power and engine dying while driving down the road, I decided to work on the car again. Here is my new thread:

Car is stalling and dying. Its unreliable. (Long post warning!)

Even though I'd replaced the big vacuum line from under the intake to the canister purge solenoid last winter, I decided to remove it and check it. I unplugged it from the manifold and sucked on it and it was leaking quite a bit . The hose didn't fit tight enough on the solenoid fitting so I had to put a hose clamp on it. It is tight and doesn't leak now.

I then drove the car about 5 miles uneventfully and came home for another code check. The first time I ran the codes I got:

KOER
91
34

I thought that was strange that only one O2 was now reading lean. I reran the code check two more times and got this both times:

KOER
94
44
34

94 is secondary air system inoperative. 44 is air management system inoperative.

liljoe07 says that I don't have to worry about those thermactor codes unless I want to try to clean out the crossover tube.

Everybody who said it was a vacuum leak causing codes 41 and 91 were right. It was just a matter of finding it. I'm happy that the dreaded 41 and 91 are now gone.
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Old 01-02-2011, 08:34 PM   #95
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I just saw this forgotten thread during my search of my previous posts.

I'm searching because the problem came back within days of fixing the vacuum leak in my previous post, 3 September 2009.

I've suffered through the same symptoms ever since and now I've narrowed it down to the EGR. Here are links to my most recent EGR thread:

Code 34. Replaced EVP. Code still there.
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Old 01-27-2011, 02:00 PM   #96
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UPDATE!

I'm trying to "tie up" the loose ends in some of my threads since I know other people with similar problems search this stuff.

The code 34, EVP closed voltage out of limits, >.67V was the biggie. Once I got a new, correctly sealing EGR valve on, I started to make some progress.

At first, I still had a code 91, left side lean. Upon some research, I found out that a clogged smog crossover tube can cause this. I removed my crossover tube and it was indeed clogged sending all the air to the driver's side causing the resulting lean condition.

I removed the smog pump and crossover tube (plugged heads with bolts) but I left the passenger side thermactor solenoids in place and wired up. I finally got rid of the lean codes . However, I've got 44 and 94 which are thermactor codes.

My idle issues are now much, much better. In fact, they're almost normal. I don't have any idle speed hangup issues now! I still get a little bit of a jump in rpm when I simultaneously depress the clutch and take my foot off of the gas pedal, though. It's not nearly as bad as before but its still there.

Codes 44 and 94 were there even before I removed the smog equipment. See 2 posts up above, #94 dated 3 Sep 2009. I'm starting to wonder if those codes cause the computer to revert to some "crutching" strategy ?

In any case, for people suffering from these idle speed problems and lean codes, take a good look at your EGR and make sure that it is sealing. Next, if you've still got your smog system, make sure that your crossover tube isn't clogged. I hope this can help someone solve their similar problem.
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Old 01-27-2011, 11:35 PM   #97
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LOL.... I tried to get you to clean it out in the other thread!

But honestly It never crossed my mind about there being too much air being shoved into one bank. Makes perfect since.

Good Job, and way to stay at it!
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Old 01-28-2011, 10:34 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyUAL91GT View Post
UPDATE!

I'm trying to "tie up" the loose ends in some of my threads since I know other people with similar problems search this stuff.

The code 34, EVP closed voltage out of limits, >.67V was the biggie. Once I got a new, correctly sealing EGR valve on, I started to make some progress.

At first, I still had a code 91, left side lean. Upon some research, I found out that a clogged smog crossover tube can cause this. I removed my crossover tube and it was indeed clogged sending all the air to the driver's side causing the resulting lean condition.

I removed the smog pump and crossover tube (plugged heads with bolts) but I left the passenger side thermactor solenoids in place and wired up. I finally got rid of the lean codes . However, I've got 44 and 94 which are thermactor codes.

My idle issues are now much, much better. In fact, they're almost normal. I don't have any idle speed hangup issues now! I still get a little bit of a jump in rpm when I simultaneously depress the clutch and take my foot off of the gas pedal, though. It's not nearly as bad as before but its still there.

Codes 44 and 94 were there even before I removed the smog equipment. See 2 posts up above, #94 dated 3 Sep 2009. I'm starting to wonder if those codes cause the computer to revert to some "crutching" strategy ?

In any case, for people suffering from these idle speed problems and lean codes, take a good look at your EGR and make sure that it is sealing. Next, if you've still got your smog system, make sure that your crossover tube isn't clogged. I hope this can help someone solve their similar problem.
Nice I am glad I could help and you got this fixed. You might want to drive the car around so it can re-learn.
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Old 01-28-2011, 08:50 PM   #99
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Good to hear you had some luck. I ended up removing all the theermactor stuff too, it just isn't worth keeping it. I took the extra step of blocking off my egr and it ran great after that, just like you described though with the minor surge when pushing the clutch in.
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:21 AM   #100
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Thanks, everyone. Notch, I've already noticed that it is already learning. Upon the very first start-up after the removal work, the idle wasn't quite right. It learned pretty quick and now all is very well.

liljoe, yeah, that crossover tube was the culprit. It might not have been at the very beginning of this ordeal (2 1/2 yrs ago!) but over time it clogged and gave me the single code 91.

copracr, since you've also got the slight rpm surge when pushing in the clutch, are you also getting thermactor codes 44 and 94? Some guys without smog equipment claim that they don't have these codes. I'm starting to think that the ECM sees these codes and goes into a different strategy adding timing which causes this slight surge. The surge is kinda annoying during gear changes in that I can hear the engine rev (exhaust) as if I don't know how to properly drive a stick shift car !
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Old 01-29-2011, 08:44 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyUAL91GT View Post
Thanks, everyone. Notch, I've already noticed that it is already learning. Upon the very first start-up after the removal work, the idle wasn't quite right. It learned pretty quick and now all is very well.

liljoe, yeah, that crossover tube was the culprit. It might not have been at the very beginning of this ordeal (2 1/2 yrs ago!) but over time it clogged and gave me the single code 91.

copracr, since you've also got the slight rpm surge when pushing in the clutch, are you also getting thermactor codes 44 and 94? Some guys without smog equipment claim that they don't have these codes. I'm starting to think that the ECM sees these codes and goes into a different strategy adding timing which causes this slight surge. The surge is kinda annoying during gear changes in that I can hear the engine rev (exhaust) as if I don't know how to properly drive a stick shift car !
Partially or completely clogged crossover tube section will cause either side to read lean in a KOER.

Thermactor codes 44 and 94 are KOER exclusive codes. IOW, they are not memorized or logged into memory. They are only used for the real-time test the EEC does of the thermactor plumbing using the O2's as the indicators.

Idle control when shifting....... anytime the EEC sees it's over 6 MPH via the VSS, no failure code 67 is logged (IOW... it sees the system changing from "in-gear to in-neutral" condition and from part-throttle to closed-throttle), the EEC will open the IAC to a pre-programmed value called "dashpot pre-position". Reason why while shifting above 6 MPH, you will notice the idle higher than the target idle value when the vehicle is stationary.

Summarizing...... the condition described as "hanging idle speed" or "surge" while shifting, is a dashpot subroutine that is part of the EEC logic and is normal. In layman terms...... there is nothing to correct or fix -OR- there would be something to correct/fix if it didn't happen.
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:57 PM   #102
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Quote:
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copracr, since you've also got the slight rpm surge when pushing in the clutch, are you also getting thermactor codes 44 and 94? Some guys without smog equipment claim that they don't have these codes. I'm starting to think that the ECM sees these codes and goes into a different strategy adding timing which causes this slight surge. The surge is kinda annoying during gear changes in that I can hear the engine rev (exhaust) as if I don't know how to properly drive a stick shift car !
Yea, those are the only codes i have now. I deleted the EGR by putting a plate between the egr and throttle body. I then cut some of the postion sensor to get the voltage at 0.7.
You may be on to something there with the codes giving us an issue with more dashpot than we need. I can tell you that with the IAC unplugged it will run rock solid when warmed up and tachs up and down FAST. It reminds me of a well tuned carbed motor.
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Old 01-29-2011, 05:03 PM   #103
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Quote:
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Yea, those are the only codes i have now. I deleted the EGR by putting a plate between the egr and throttle body. I then cut some of the postion sensor to get the voltage at 0.7.
You may be on to something there with the codes giving us an issue with more dashpot than we need. I can tell you that with the IAC unplugged it will run rock solid when warmed up and tachs up and down FAST. It reminds me of a well tuned carbed motor.
Thermactor codes are KOER exclusive/specific codes...... the system does not verify thermactor air routing or log thermactor related codes in memory..... nor do they cause the dashpot preset calibration to change.
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Old 01-29-2011, 05:15 PM   #104
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Thermactor codes are KOER exclusive/specific codes...... the system does not verify thermactor air routing or log thermactor related codes in memory..... nor do they cause the dashpot preset calibration to change.
I've read some reputable articles that agree with you. I'm not saying this is exactly the issue, but something is and it would be nice to find it.
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Old 01-29-2011, 08:08 PM   #105
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I've read some reputable articles that agree with you. I'm not saying this is exactly the issue, but something is and it would be nice to find it.
So have I, but the one that stands above any article, is the actual GUFB strategy book from Ford. For example......



And I was able to verify the above via field tests and repairs since 1994. BTW.... did you know that same dashpot function is also part of the OBD-II strategies. IOW.... if failure codes 67 and/or 29 are not present in the system the "hanging idle" while shifting..... is normal EEC operation, there is no problem to fix.
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