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Old 03-27-2010, 05:10 PM   #1
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351C Fox Swap: Recommendations needed

Last fall I started a 351C swap into a 4cyl 93 Fox body coupe. Recently I just got laid-off but want to finish the project. So I need to be budget conscious and smart about what I buy. I have no immediate plans to take it to the strip. Just a car to cruise around town for now.

I need recommendations for the following:
1. Cooling (radiator [purchased] & electric fan) <--Tater1 answered
2. drive-line (purchased)
3. Suspension
4. Brakes <-- 91 Stang answered

Additions:
5. Intake and Carb combo?
6. Ignition setup?

Last edited by ~87~Notch; 07-20-2010 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 03-27-2010, 10:52 PM   #2
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For a cooling combo set-up this has worked for a few years for me with no issues in a Fox stang. I've used this set-up with a couple Cleveland's and a stroker Windsor driving on the street or running high 9's at the track. I used a Griffin "universal" style radiator 31" x 19" with Ford outlets. The fans are off a 2001 Ford Focus car and will move a Ton of air. I wired the fans up individually and in the summer cruising time I usually only have to run one of them. I used the stock lower mounting tabs and used an upper plate from UPR. Pretty low dollar set-up.

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Old 03-28-2010, 09:45 PM   #3
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Thanks Tater for the tip!
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:14 AM   #4
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I got #1 checked off the list.

Anyone else got any tips or suggestions for the rest of list?
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Old 04-05-2010, 11:37 PM   #5
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for the rear end i'd run a 8.8 with the tubes welded,31 spline axles,3.73 gears,and a good spool.don't know how the cleveland will like any lower gear.
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '69stangdude View Post
for the rear end i'd run a 8.8 with the tubes welded,31 spline axles,3.73 gears,and a good spool.don't know how the cleveland will like any lower gear.
If I can't find a 8.8 rearend from a mustang at the local junk yard, is there another ford vehicle I can get 8.8 from (lincoln, ranger)?
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Old 04-08-2010, 07:08 AM   #7
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Fox Swap

Please read this post and it may answer some of your questions, or cover stuff that you did not think about yet.
this is on the same swap as you are doing.
351C fox pics
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Old 04-08-2010, 08:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91 stang View Post
Please read this post and it may answer some of your questions, or cover stuff that you did not think about yet.
this is on the same swap as you are doing.
351C fox pics
Yeah I actually got that thread bookmarked. Unfortunately it didn't address the items in my list above.
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Old 04-09-2010, 07:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~87~Notch View Post
Yeah I actually got that thread bookmarked. Unfortunately it didn't address the items in my list above.
sorry, If you want a cheap set of brakes you can take the spindles from a V-8 fox and slap them on, or if you want to change to 5 lug you can just put on a set of Lincoln rotors on the V-8 spindles.
You can also get a set of spindles, calipers, rotors from a SN-95 stang and put them on by changing the ball joints to SN-95 ones.
This would allow you to run slip on rotors and a sealed front wheel bearing, and change it to a 5 lug all in one.
On the drive line are you looking to run a stick shift or auto?
Drive shaft I would say use a alum shaft like the ford motorsports one.
Suspension need more info, is this car going to be a street car or just a drag car?
how much HP is the Cleveland going to push out? slicks? DOT street slick?

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Old 04-09-2010, 01:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91 stang View Post
On the drive line are you looking to run a stick shift or auto?
Drive shaft I would say use a alum shaft like the ford motorsports one.
Suspension need more info, is this car going to be a street car or just a drag car?
how much HP is the Cleveland going to push out? slicks? DOT street slick?
Thanks for the brake tip!

Auto, I have PA Performance C4 to put behind the Cleveland.

This will be a street car and I'm guessing 300-350HP, nothing spectacular really since I'm really on a budget build at this point.
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:37 AM   #11
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an 8.8 fox or sn95 rear will be fine for your power level.
suspension wise will depend on what you want to do with it. i would suggest a set of V8 front springs if your car is originally a 4cly as the extra weight will drag it down./

the drive line will be different on what trans you use. but a used FMS aluminum one that is chopped to fit and rebalanced will be fine.
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Old 04-15-2010, 12:34 PM   #12
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Thanks masterjr33!
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Old 04-15-2010, 08:45 PM   #13
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does the trans have a trans brake on it?
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '69stangdude View Post
for the rear end i'd run a 8.8 with the tubes welded,31 spline axles,3.73 gears,and a good spool.don't know how the cleveland will like any lower gear.
No spool for street driving, even with 31 spline axles they will break eventually if you run any decent sized tire or any tire with good traction at all.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:51 PM   #15
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I'm about to do the same swap, shooting for larger horsepower numbers of course, on one of my Mustangs. It will be a street/strip car, I've built many fox bodies with everything from the 302's and 347's up to big block cars, but I have not done a Cleveland yet. I'm excited about it.

I'll be using my PA C4 w/trans brake (it's rated to 800 horsepower).

For cooling, you might check out the most recent issue of Popular Hotroding. They have a fox cooling article that is low budget and effective. It's the same one I've been using for years, except they used a generic summit radiator and I used a Griffin built specifically for the foxes. I don't ever have to even run my Mk VIII fan (which pulls 5000+ cfm) unless I'm sitting still in traffic for over 5 minutes or so. You won't find a better bang for the buck fan out there than a used MK VIII or a 2 speed tarus.
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:06 AM   #16
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TheNever I may have to pick your brain on a mild cleveland build. You may see some PMs from me if you're willing to lend me some of your advice.
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Old 04-17-2010, 08:42 PM   #17
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87 Notch, feel free to PM me. I've done more than a couple Cleveland builds in the past and working on some decent current Cleveland based combo stuff. I'd be more than happy to tell ya whats worked here and what didn't.....

Been running Moser 33 spline axles/spool combo with 325/50 Mickey DR's for years on a street/strip combo with no issues here. Best 60 ft is a 1.33.....:-)

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Last edited by Tater1; 04-17-2010 at 08:46 PM. Reason: Had to add some info....
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Old 04-18-2010, 03:44 PM   #18
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Thanks Tater!

I'm coming from a new school generation (bolt on & hand held programmers) who doesn't have much old school experience. I understand the basics and not affraid to get my hands dirty. I'd like to avoid the school of hard knocks.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:55 PM   #19
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Picked up a 8.8 rearend a couple days ago. I have driveline and suspension to do still.

If I have to do a custom driveline, what's the proper way to measure length?
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Old 04-24-2010, 01:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~87~Notch View Post
TheNever I may have to pick your brain on a mild cleveland build. You may see some PMs from me if you're willing to lend me some of your advice.


I'll lend you whatever advice I can! Tater would be the guy to go to with the Cleveland specific questions though. I'm working on my first one, he seems to have done many. I'm relying on my buddies who have built and raced Clevelands since the 70's. As far as general fox boy/racing/street parts though, I can help you there. I've built about 25 or so for folks around here everything from basic bolt on cars, to full on ra ra ra race cars. I'm pretty familiar with the fox chases.


......starting with full spool on the street is an absolute no-no. If you drive around the block or to your local cruise once a month sure, you can get away with it for awhile. I'm talking about actual street cars, that are driven to work, or to races 300 plus miles away etc.

For every one guy that's gotten by with a spool for any period of time there are 20 more who have snapped axles sitting on the side of the road waiting for a ride to get their trailer.

Keep in mind, 33 spline axles are way overkill for this guy's horsepower goals, I've run mid 10's on 28 splines many many many times (not that I suggest it).
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Old 04-24-2010, 01:50 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~87~Notch View Post
Picked up a 8.8 rearend a couple days ago. I have driveline and suspension to do still.

If I have to do a custom driveline, what's the proper way to measure length?
You are talking about a driveshaft correct? Are you sure you need a custom? If so have the guys that are making the shaft measure, or at least tell you the procedure they want you to use.

I'd wager you can get by with an FMS Aluminum DS just fine however.
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Old 04-24-2010, 10:00 PM   #22
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TheNever, you make a good point on the spool/street car. In no way an everyday car here but I do log some street miles from time to time when in the mood.Even bust off low-mid 1.30's 60 ft's in street trim. Same Moser axles/spool since 2001. Been thru many ring/pinion changes thru the years and the spool/axles always looked good to go.

I agree with you on the FR alum. drive shaft, running one here for awhile with combo's from a C-4,T-5 to TopLoader. No issues.

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2 69 Stangs, a convert. and a hardtop
92 5.0 LX usual mods
02 F250 XLT 4 x 4
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:23 AM   #23
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this thread seems to be of use to me too because i am "finishing"(lol) my first cleveland/fox combo. the motor is in the car and im just working out some issues but i have been wondering what to do about an h or x pipe to fit my 3in collectors on my kooks headers. Are there any suggestions or should i start looking into fabbing up one?
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:36 PM   #24
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FWIW.....get one of the $100 or so universal X-pipe kits from Summit. Made one up from mandrel bends from NAPA and one from Summit in the past. The Summit "kit" was easier. Helps if you have a welder.

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Old 05-26-2010, 11:48 PM   #25
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I have a shop that does all of my exhaust work, they sponsor me (BARELY) but I get a discount on stuff, and they do great work.

I usually pay about 50 bucks for him to make me an x-pipe, but it's well worth the money as no bolt on kit ever made lines up as well as a custom setup. That said the universal pipes are not a bad way to go.

Keep in mind you won't see any gains from mandrel bending unless the entire system is mandrel bent, so if you pay extra for mandrel (either in your x or in the rest of the system), make sure that it's all done that way. Personally I don't bother. To me IF those extra 2 horsepower are really that important then you shouldn't be running any exhaust after the headers anyway.
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:26 PM   #26
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I'm resurrecting my thread. It's been a long couple of months. Got laid off, found a new job, move across the state and now finally getting settled.

I've been gathering parts still since my last update. I bought a FMS Alum driveshaft and misc acc like waterpump, gaskets etc.

Next purchase is intake and carb. I currently have the factory Edelbrock F351 intake and 650cfm carb that came with the motor.

Any suggestions or opinions on intake & carb setup? I might as well address ignition setup too. Think budget minded
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Old 07-27-2010, 01:51 AM   #27
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Glad you found work again mate.

If you stick with factory heads, the manifold has to match it. It might be obvious to some, but 4V heads can't be used with 2V manifolds, and vice-versa.

Also, most CHI "3V" heads need their own special CHI manifolds (higher ports). A few can use the standard manifold though, so you must specify what setup you want.

650 Holley sounds about right. Any bigger and it would be a pig to drive. mechanical or vacuum secondaries?

One concern: Not sure of US laws, but in Australia you can't retrofit an older engine into a newer body, in regards to emissions compliance. As all Fox Mustangs from '86 onwards were EFI, is it still possible to fit an old carby-fed engine into a later model.... Assuming it's to be driven on the road?
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