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Old 11-26-2001, 06:18 PM   #1
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What can you tell me about a 351 Cleveland

I don't know much about them.... I do know my brother in law put one in his 71 boss. Why aren't they as popular as the Winsor? no aftermarket, or no HP?
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Old 11-26-2001, 06:36 PM   #2
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I looked at putting a Cleveland into my '90 Fox body. I already have a 2 bolt block and a set of 4v heads.

The main reason that I didn't use it is lack of readily availible parts compared to a Windsor. Also, the parts cost more.

The Cleveland has huge power potential (its basically a Boss 302 with 351 cid/ at least head wise). Give Coast High Performance a call they do some Clevelands and Cleveland strokers. 310-784-2977.

Holcomb Motorsports has conversion kits.
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Old 11-26-2001, 07:03 PM   #3
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The cleveland is a little different than a windsor. The bolt pattern for the heads? and intake? is different as well as the block? I think. I know that some stuff won't bolt directly to a windsor. The heads are a very good design. My friend put on in an 86 and had trouble finding headers for the car that would fit. He didn't have much difficulty doing the swap though and he kept it a 5 spd.
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Old 11-26-2001, 07:10 PM   #4
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30 years ago they were viewed as superior to the Windsor but since Ford pretty much orphaned them a few years later and development virtually stopped, and conversely committed to the Windsor family and development for them took off, you can now build way more hp per dollar with a Windsor than a Cleveland. Nothing sounds like a Cleveland and they sure do romp when built properly but if you're doing a build-up on anything where Cleveland originality isn't a key then you can do better with the Windsor simply because of bang-for-the-buck and virtual off-the-shelf parts availability. The same can't be said for the Cleve's anymore.
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Old 11-26-2001, 07:53 PM   #5
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the 351C ran from 70-74 it came in passenger cars and performance cars only no trucks, it came in a 2v and a 4v version, the heads were completely diffrent (2v 2.05/1.60 valves) (4v 2.19/1.72) the 4v heads were closed chamber for the first 2 years of production. the boss motor used 4 bolt mains and a solid lift cam. The 351C shares the same bellhousing as a small block ford. they are known for there high revs, but have oiling sytem problems. the distributor and rocker arms interchange with the 429/460 engines. As far as I know nothing will directly bolt on to a windsor off them. Like everyone says theres not much aftermarket for them compared to the windsor, however they still have alot of potential
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Old 11-26-2001, 08:04 PM   #6
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Lack of development ? No parts ? You just gotta look and pay shipping fees from Australia.

Maybe the parts are scarce in the US of A,but Down Under,(Australia) they had an interseting Cleveland still be produced,until a few years ago.


The 302 Cleveland !!!

Now this was a 302,9.2 deck,3 inch stroke

Check out this link:
http://falconcoupes.tripod.com/mycoupe.htm

Ford logo from the early mid 1970's.
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Old 11-27-2001, 01:47 AM   #7
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For all out racing, the cleveland is superior in many ways. The block, even, the two bolt version has much thicker main webbing than a windsor. If your going to go with a carb, there are many more intakes available for a cleveland than a windsor. Also, as everyone knows, the cleveland heads have much better flow, especially the 4-barrel ones. You can stroke a cleveland to a 408 cid but the more popular stroker is to buy the 393 crank, you can get it to fit a cleveland as well. Or if you have a 393 crank for a 351W already, all you have to do it turn it down to the 351C main journal size and it will fit also.

If you are thinking of installing a 351C in a mustang and haven't already bought a bunch of 351W stuff already, you will be money ahead install the 351C. It will cost you more to start with, mainly due having to buy a special oil pan and headers but its worth the extra cost over time.
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Old 11-27-2001, 02:47 AM   #8
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i know it's possible to install cleveland heads on a windsor, frpp catolog tells you how to do it and there was an article in mm&ff about a guy who did it and the car ran like high 10s first time at the track, the problem w/this head swap is the intake, i don't think anyone makes them any more, please correct me if i'm wrong

how high did the boss 302s spin to???
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Old 11-27-2001, 03:23 AM   #9
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Clevelands were built for one thing and one thing only.....to spank SBC ass in NASCAR! Given another several years of development they would have easily done so. The 4V heads were way ahead of their time and flowed impressive numbers even by todays standards. They get a bad rap from people because they really weren't good performers on the street......and rightly so. Imagine putting a set of heads that flow over 330CFM on a carbureted 351 inch motor and then running it around town with a 3000 stall!! You need to spin them to make real power and that's what they were designed to do. THE HEAD BOLT PATTERN IS THE SAME AS A WINDSOR, IT'S THE COOLANT FLOW THAT IS DIFFERNT THROUGH THEM. It is a fairly straightforward conversion that any machine shop can do. If you have a 4 bolt block, the stock cranks are supposedly good to 10,000RPM if they are worked by a credible crank grinder.....at least that's what i've read about the old Pro Stocker racers that used to destroke them to 330 something inches and wind the living crap out of them! As mentioned, the oiling system is not very good but can be fixed to cure the problem. People say that it is cheaper to build Windsor stuff.....but an SVO block is over $3000 after machining and a good crank is $1000. In comparison, you can get a standard 4 bolt Cleveland block, crank, and rods for $400 and finish the rest of the motor with the $3600 you save. Basically, you can build a 600HP Cleveland for around $5000 because the stock stuff will handle that level easily. I have a standard bore 4 bolt block, crank, and rods for sale now if anyone is interest. Why don't i run them you ask? 1. They don't allow it in the NMRA classes. 2. I feel safer with more modern part designs at over 1300 horsepower. However, a Cleveland can make one hell of an economical bracket race motor......
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Old 11-27-2001, 07:46 AM   #10
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As far as Cleveland heads on the 351 Windsor. It is possible to use 2 barrel heads on the 351 Windsor. There is a special head gasket and intake required. (Seems like there were a couple of water passages that had to covered up).

I remember two versions one was the Street Boss and the other was the Track Boss (I think).

Last I heard the kits were still availible (but don't quote me on it). I will try to check with a friend of mine that does a lot of Boss 302 and Cleveland stuff.
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Old 11-27-2001, 07:53 AM   #11
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Down under we found that 4V 2.02 valves worked realy good on a 2v head.Was actually quicker than a 4v..Unless circuit racing that was the way to go.Clevo is a strong block.We still make a new inlet Funnelweb 2, designed for 4v flow charicteristics 4v $350. / 2v but 4 barrel $320 U.S and other stuff
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Old 11-27-2001, 08:27 AM   #12
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RACEALLDAY: If a person were to get the main journals turned down on the Windsor 393 stroker crank to fit the Cleveland block, what pistons and rods would have to be used?

I know with the 393 Windsor strokers that the stock 351 rods and 302 pistons are used. Would that mean that one could use the stock 351 Cleveland rods and 302 pistons with the 393W crank also?
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Old 11-27-2001, 08:49 AM   #13
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I love Clevelands but I'm suprised nobody has mentioned the weight factor. Clevelands are almost big-block heavy...I don't have the exact weight.

I had a modded 351C 2V in my 70 Cougar.
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Old 11-27-2001, 09:25 AM   #14
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Well, The heads and valves are too big by far in stock form especially the 4V and it's hard to find 4V quench heads too. The oiling system is very bad for high rpm in stock trim and the blocks are VERY heavy compared to the Windsor. You can use the Cleveland style and actual Cleveland heads on the Windsor block anyway. That's what NASCAR does.

Almost all of the aftermarket Cleveland style heads ala Yates and Neal and Blue Thunder etc. are used on Windsor type blocks. This way you get the best of both worlds. The Cleveland airflow and Windsor block and oiling. These aftermarket Cleveland heads are FAR superior in design to the actual Cleveland which takes a lot of work to get running well. When it does it can seriously haul ass though!

The down side to the Windsor is that the block is mediocre in strength in stock form with the windsor style thinner main webbing although better than the 302 it's still not that good and has the titanic 3 inch main sizes which make for a strong but very heavy crank. Even the 2.750 cleveland crank is big!


The Windsor has a vastly superior oiling system and can be purchased in several block configurations featuring several different deck heights and bearing sizes depending on how serious you are and there's also umpteen manifolds for these Clevor setups with Yates or the Neal setup from SVO and others if you know where to look.
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Old 11-27-2001, 11:17 AM   #15
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the cleveland blocks arent that strong in the cylinder walls.for a street strip engine nothing more than a .030 bore and for any competion engine or high horsepower only a .020 bore is recomended because of distortion.old pro stock racers would get away with an .080 bore because they would sleeve the whole block.
cranks are very strong but heavy.used to be popular to use spacers and a 302 sized stoker crank because of weight.
cylinder heads are awsome even though runners are to big,not a big deal to build a 10 second fox body with a mild cleveland.
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Old 11-27-2001, 01:07 PM   #16
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Old 11-27-2001, 11:38 PM   #17
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69stang, when you stroke a 351C to 393, I think I figured it up once to where you can use a 6.00 length rod, then buy a set of pistons for the 426 stroker windsor. I'm not really sure on that but I think thats right. I'll figure it up again and let you know.

I noticed many people have been saying that a 351C has oiling problems. So does the windsor, even more so because it has a larger main journal size which is 3.00" as opposed to the 351C's 2.75". I have a 393 "clevor" in my mustang and believe me, I have had my share of rod bearing trouble with using the windsor block. I wish a had a 351C. But, even if I went to the 351C block this is not a complete cure for the problem, a 351C likes to eat rod bearings also, just not quite as bad as the windsor. The only real cure to this problem on either type of block is to turn the crank down to the small 2.00" Chevy journal size on the rods. This is the only way to elimate the problem. However, if your 351C or 351W is never going to see over 6500 rpm, then this isn't necessary. Just run synthetic oil and you should be fine.
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Old 11-30-2001, 02:07 AM   #18
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69stang, I checked again on stroking a 351C to a 393. You can use the 6.00" rods and a set of pistons for the 427 stroker 351W. All you need to do is specify you want the pistons with cleveland style valve reliefs. I know they make them because of friend of mine has a set the came out of a 427 "clevor" engine.

A 393C stroker is going to be my next project when I get the money to change over to a cleveland. If you build one of these with a pair of closed chamber 4v heads and those big dome pistons like my friend has out of the "clevor" engine of his, that should make some kind of a$$ hauler! I wouldn't be surprised at all if it ran low 10s the first time at the track.
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Old 08-12-2003, 11:47 PM   #19
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As they said, the track boss allows you to use the cleveland style heads on the late model block.

Hey, what do you know... I have a track boss intake for sale!
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