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Old 11-20-2008, 10:50 AM   #1
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supercharging a 351 cleveland

Looking at putting a centrifugal supercharger on a 351 cleveland...has anyone attempted this before or does anyone have any ideas? I'm not aware of any kits out there and a roots style won't work in this application. The clevelands in a 70 mach 1 and it has a shaker scoop that I would like to keep for the looks and run the duct work to a carb hat under the shaker scoop.
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:00 PM   #2
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In the mid 60's , Shelby used a Paxton with a blow thru carb setup. The carb was in a pressureized hat. I'm sure with a little fabrication on a setup like that would work. I think the hat is still availabe from Paxton. If not you need to build a box so that the carb sees boost pressure.

I think you can still buy the setup from paxton, but I'm sure with some work you could adapt some of the newer SC
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:42 PM   #3
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Here's mine.Procharger 7psi blow thru 650dp modified by me.

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Old 11-20-2008, 09:44 PM   #4
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Here's a picture from another member on another forum..

http://www.cantedvalves.com/sc351c/sc351c.html
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:22 PM   #5
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Hey Black Mach 1 How do I get ahold of the guy with the cantedvalves web site?
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Old 11-22-2008, 10:52 AM   #6
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Hey Black Mach 1 How do I get ahold of the guy with the cantedvalves web site?
You mean me?
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:23 PM   #7
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Yeah I tried to email you off the web site but apparently that address isn't good. By the looks of your site you did exactly what I was thinking about. I have a 1970 mach1 with a 351cleveland now a 408 stroker making 505hp and 476tq at the crank but I would like to get a little more out of it. I have a couple little hurdles. The car has a shaker scoop that I want to keep for the looks and maybe just run the duct work through the base and use a carb hat under the scoop. I also have power steering and not sure if I can use the stock pump and have enough room for the blower above it. Right now the car is set up with stock v belt pulleys also. The compression ratio is 9.5:1 and runs on pump gas..I would think I could run around 7 psi. any advice or help?
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Old 11-26-2008, 01:31 PM   #8
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any brand or series supercharger that would work best in this application?
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Old 11-26-2008, 11:06 PM   #9
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roots roots roots

Hi guys sorry to interrupt, I realize you are all talking about centrifugal stuff but I had to post anyway... myself... I really like my superchargers to... all hang out lol, nothing like attracting law enforcment with INYOURFACE! supercharger lol.

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Old 11-26-2008, 11:35 PM   #10
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the most output was the roots blown . / straight alky fed R.E.D. dragster of the late 1970's that was on the east coast / mid west....

VENEY....
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Old 11-26-2008, 11:47 PM   #11
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I would like to know more about the special EIGHT WHEELED MODIFIED GROCERY KART that is holding up the ROOTS BLOWN CLEVELAND....


..........
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tires are the great equalizer
a degree wheel, EIGHT INCH dial caliper & adjustable pushrods should be just as normal as a 1/2" wrench in your toolbox
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Old 11-27-2008, 01:29 AM   #12
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Well I think I had one to many Lasko and Borsodi pivo/beer or I was mixing my import beer and Jolt cola to much the night I built it lol, I was getting fed up with all the bums pushing shopping carts in my alley so I confiscated a few old carts, I think I was thinking about, trying to put a new spin on building a "grocery-getter" engine lol. To bad you cant see the push cart handle at the back lol. I am glad you didint ask me whats the deal with the 8 track tapes (top right) LOL.

Now Veney is an interesting character, his roots blown cleveland had to be one of the baddest C engines out there. I understand he got that dragster into the high 5's when it finaly split a cylinder. I really wonder what was done to the block to make it hold that kind of power.

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Old 11-27-2008, 04:17 AM   #13
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filled the water jackets in block with grout.....supported the heads under the spring seat areas with threadded rods / posts to keep the chambers from caving in.



LOOKS LIKE your custom fabricated design utiliZed the
DOUBLE RAIL FRAME DESIGN

along with combining the newest in breakthrough "four across in front" swivel design and the
"four in a square rigid " design in the rear....

sometimes has been found to be kinda hard to turn....
...the rigid pair in rear usually sKids....

the only thing that your design is missing is something that has been intergrated into todays latest designs on grocery Karts is the push handlebar that has the bells on it for the ice cream street vendor to ring as he goes down the street.

I have made many six and eight wheeled grocery kart "conversions"...
...found that the wheels needed to be all set up WIDER to help stability when going over the rough floors / driveways...

the one good thing was the CATCH PAN SCREEN in the bottom...






notice that Veneys dragster has the right front wheel well up in the air and the car is well past the 100 foot mark.....
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I have gone down the road that you are only now about to travel.
tires are the great equalizer
a degree wheel, EIGHT INCH dial caliper & adjustable pushrods should be just as normal as a 1/2" wrench in your toolbox
there aint no shortcuts to doing it RIGHT....
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Old 11-27-2008, 10:59 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by badassmach View Post
Yeah I tried to email you off the web site but apparently that address isn't good. By the looks of your site you did exactly what I was thinking about. I have a 1970 mach1 with a 351cleveland now a 408 stroker making 505hp and 476tq at the crank but I would like to get a little more out of it. I have a couple little hurdles. The car has a shaker scoop that I want to keep for the looks and maybe just run the duct work through the base and use a carb hat under the scoop. I also have power steering and not sure if I can use the stock pump and have enough room for the blower above it. Right now the car is set up with stock v belt pulleys also. The compression ratio is 9.5:1 and runs on pump gas..I would think I could run around 7 psi. any advice or help?
Okay, in order. I dont have a shaker so I cannot really speak to that. I would find it hard to keep it functional... but you could probably hook it up somhow for appearance.

On my brackets, there was room behind them to mount the stock steering pump. It mounted up just fine. The challenge would be the belt... not so much a challenge as it would be putting an idler in the right spot to reroute the belt. I had already swapped over to manual steering, but I was considering a power rack, so I did check for clearance. I am running 5.0 pullies with a 6 rib belt, but in the same conficuration as your v-belt. You should be fine with V-belt on the engine, but you probablu want a 6 or 8 (I useed 8) on the supercharger.

I am currently running about 5PSI boost right now on 92-94 octane (premium) and no timing controls. I have checked the plugs numerous times, and I have not seen detonation. I am on a stock 1970 engine (original internals), so I have to be careful as I dont want to detonate the engine, this block imparticular.

As far as what I might do different... I would have taken the money I have in this and invested in a) EFI with a distributorless ignition, and b) a screw-type supercharger. This current setup, while it works very well, isnt optimal for a real performance application... althought I havent tapped out it's performance potential. The inlet on the back is too close to the heads, leaving not much room for a proper intake pipe. The pulleys are about 1" from the radiator, making any belt or pulley change require the radiator and fan to come out. There is no room for an electric fan on the engine side of the radiator, so it is a pusher from the front.

Dont get me wrong... it was a fun project, and it performs very well. These Clevelands just dont leave you much room to work.

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Old 11-27-2008, 11:03 AM   #15
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any brand or series supercharger that would work best in this application?
The smallest one you can get that will support the performance you want. Hindsight, I probably picked a blower bigger than I needed as I am only trying to spin 5PSI, and maybe 8PSi after a new shortblock... then again, the slower you have to spin them, the longer they will last. I didnt want a Novi 1000 that I would have to spin to 100% just to get the low end of my boost requirements.
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Old 11-27-2008, 10:32 PM   #16
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I know there isn't really a way to make the shaker functional....I just want to keep it on there for the looks...a cone air filter under the hood would be just fine. As far as the motor goes I can push it as far as my rods will hold. I have an eagle 4340 forged crank, eagle I beam rods, JE forged pistons. The block is a stock 70 block and 70 4v closed chamber heads with roller rockers and Crower hydraulic cam. I think everything else would go as far as a stock cleveland block will but I think The Rods aren't good past the 6-700hp...I would like to see the 700hp just for kicks it is a street car and probably won't get driven too hard. I'm using a northern radiator and a puller fan set up that I could make a pusher...I'm also toying with a power rack idea however everyone says I will need a big block set up and they still don"t know if it will work. They get all excited til I mention hooker comp headers. Would you happen to have or be willing to make another set of those brackets?
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Old 11-28-2008, 01:05 PM   #17
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changin from the original design steering to a RACK is not going to do whatever you think it will..


you have to concentrate on the one sole direction....

the stock / existing steering affords the largest oil pan for your blower application.
changing to a rack and pinion steering is not cheap.....and gain / if any , is little.\\no mater what, you need to use a better rod than the stock rod...because when a cleveland engine looses a rod, it usually is at high rpm and power levels ...and it will destroy the VALUABLE AND NOT REPLACE-ABLE BLOCK....!!!!!!
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a degree wheel, EIGHT INCH dial caliper & adjustable pushrods should be just as normal as a 1/2" wrench in your toolbox
there aint no shortcuts to doing it RIGHT....
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Old 11-28-2008, 01:52 PM   #18
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I would like the rack because its a lot more precise than the power assist steering setup I currently have. I have a milodon 9 quart pan that I'm told will work with most any rack. With filter it hold 10 quarts...how much will I need for a blower? I have a set of eagle I-beam rods currently. The motor made peak power 505hp at 6,300 on a 750 holley 525hp on an 850. I would like to get to the 650-700hp range. You couldn't give the motor enough fuel On the dyno but I run a 750 on the street just for the driveability. This motor is a pump gas motor 91-92 octane and I want to keep it that way. From what I can tell I would be looking at 6-7psi boost.
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Old 11-28-2008, 07:52 PM   #19
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I'm telling you from experience.You better go with a big blower.A d1sc or bigger something capable of 1400cfm or more,clevelands like alot of air.I'm spinning my p1sc at 56000 to get 8psi at 6500rpm.I'm running the stock power steering location.Call procharger and have them send you the windsor renegade(driverside bracket).If you don't install it they'll take it back.

The renegade bracket has the option to mount the power steering pump below the blower.Also any ford lower pulley with 4 holes will fit,windsor or 302.
8 psi is like a 100shot of no2.But my engine is a budget rebuild with a baby cam and forged pistons arp head bolts.Thats it.
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Old 11-29-2008, 10:32 AM   #20
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you're using that renegade windsor bracket on a 351 cleveland?
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Old 11-30-2008, 03:12 PM   #21
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Most of the bracketry is interchangeable I have found.
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Old 12-02-2008, 12:18 AM   #22
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So it's looking like my best option would be the procharger d1sc since it's self contained and capable of 1400cfm. so other than squeezing it in there and plumbing I still need to figure out a bracket and pulley set up. Self contained I won't need to run an oil line.....I have a mallory 140 electric pump so I should be good there...any one have a good idea for a carb...I would like to run Holley...and I would assume I stay with a 750 if thats what I currently run?
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Old 12-03-2008, 01:15 AM   #23
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The pulleys from a sbf are all the same.The mallory 140 pump will work as long as your fuel pressure stays 5psi higher than the amount of boost your running.The d1sc is a excellent choice IMO.

If your really interersted in doing this it's not that hard.Call procharger and talk to the tech guys.They'll sell you a driverside side renegade bracket if you don't install it they'll take it back.Procharger has A+ customer service+there a bunch of ford freaks which helps.

I just read your older post stating that you are running the vbelts still.So Am I.The renegade crank pulley will fit inside of your existing pulley so can keep the stock crank pulley to drive the alternator+power steering.

Here skim threw here alot of detailed pics. Please post your blown engine bays
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:18 PM   #24
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You must be using a windsor...not all sbf pulleys are the same. Almost or maybe even all early ford engines run a three bolt crank pulley except the 351 cleveland..I have about 5 clevelands..10 wondors a couple of 427 FE's a 352 and even a few 460's...they all have three bolt crank pulleys except the Cleveland that has four bolt holes. Thats why it's a little work to doing this to a Cleveland. I would be Impressed if the blower bracket worked without major modification. The 351 windsor and 351 cleveland don't have a lot in comin other than cubes. One thing I did think about is if I could put a windsor harmonic damper on my Cleveland if that would possibly work ...Not sure if they would be the same other than the three and four bolt holes?

Last edited by badassmach; 12-03-2008 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:58 PM   #25
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All I know is a mid 80's 302 crank pulley will bolt right to my harmonic balancer.

THIS BRACKET SHOULD WORK WITH MINOR MODS.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...ADEBRACKET.jpg
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Old 12-03-2008, 11:01 PM   #26
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this is the crank blower pulley 6.75 inch I started out with and I'm still using.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...OWERPULLEY.jpg
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Old 12-03-2008, 11:56 PM   #27
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Huh? they must have changed to a 4 bolt later? what year windsor pulley did you use or order...and you are using a cleveland? I know since the cleveland is a bit wider than a windsor the power steering brackets are quite different...but you are using the procharger windsor brackets on a cleveland? Also I have a a/c pulley on my crank..not using the a/c groove... but would the blower pulley get out far enough or would I have to put a regular power steering pulley on?

Last edited by badassmach; 12-04-2008 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 12-04-2008, 12:13 AM   #28
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May have found something..not sure if this is true and I will say all my windsors are early motors but it looks like after 69 they may have gone to four bolt...atleast on the boss 302...if I had to make that work it looks like a lot of aftermarket harmonic balancers come either 3 or four bolt set ups. I wonder if the balancers from a windsor to a cleveland would be the same other than 3 or 4 bolt..if I had to make that work?
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Old 12-04-2008, 02:42 AM   #29
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but not all 3 bolt units are 28 ounce / inch balance weight.

also, the early dampeners have a different THRU LENGTH, so,
the mounting face of dampener is not the same.


you really need to put some stuff on,
then check alignment,]
then put more stuff on
then check alignment.

it aint that easy.
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tires are the great equalizer
a degree wheel, EIGHT INCH dial caliper & adjustable pushrods should be just as normal as a 1/2" wrench in your toolbox
there aint no shortcuts to doing it RIGHT....
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Old 12-04-2008, 12:20 PM   #30
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Kato is 100% right! It took me an entire winter of trial and error to get it right.You have one advantage, I'm giving you imformation that I had to figure out for myself.

As far as the 3 or 4 bolt stuff.Procharger has both.Mine is 4 and yes I have a cleveland.It's my 2nd cleveland.My first had more power n/a
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Old 12-04-2008, 01:21 PM   #31
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No I know it won't be easy. I talked to the guys at paxton and vortech at the sema show and they wanted to help but really had no good ideas other than maybe trying a windsor kit and modifying it. I also talked to procharger at the car craft show but they didn't even want to try and help...When i said ford the guy about shut down and when I said Cleveland he pretty much walked away. I do like the prochargers and want to go with that set-up. I'm just glad you guys know something and some have tried or done it. I'm just wondering what parts you got from Procharger or what application they are supposed to be for so that I can order the right stuff. was the pulley exactly what you needed or did you have to use a spacer.. what kind of modifying did the blower brackets need? Tensoner and belt set up?
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Old 12-05-2008, 02:11 AM   #32
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Call asp they'll make you any pulley you could possible need.There not expensive.
Well I had a vortech on a different car a few years back it was a v2sq and it ran hot as hell so thats why I decided to go self contained.Oil temps on a summer day will reach 240-250 degrees.My procharger to this day hasn't even got close to the temps of the vortech.So imo go with either company just go with a self contained unit.
Procharger does sell a power steering pump relocator bracket.Your going to have to drill new holes for the blower bracket also.
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Old 12-05-2008, 12:43 PM   #33
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I HAVE NEVER HAD so much issue doing an installation because I have a lathe and mill to modify the pulleys...

the face of the mounting on a cleveland dampener is different than all other engine setups....
naturally the face of heads to bolt brackets to is also one in itself as related to the offset distance from the dampener.....
...
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I have gone down the road that you are only now about to travel.
tires are the great equalizer
a degree wheel, EIGHT INCH dial caliper & adjustable pushrods should be just as normal as a 1/2" wrench in your toolbox
there aint no shortcuts to doing it RIGHT....
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Old 12-07-2008, 02:31 PM   #34
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Does anyone have a recomendation for a blow through carb. I like to use Holley and I currently use a holley 750. Just wondering what model would work best and If 750 cfm will be good or do I need bigger? Also is there any timming changes?
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Old 12-08-2008, 08:30 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by badassmach View Post
Does anyone have a recomendation for a blow through carb. I like to use Holley and I currently use a holley 750. Just wondering what model would work best and If 750 cfm will be good or do I need bigger? Also is there any timming changes?
C & S Specialties ....... THE BEST Blow thrus on the planet
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