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Old 10-13-2008, 09:34 AM   #1
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351c fox body swap

Just trying to get the lowdown on putting a 351c in my 90 conv. i see there are a few people that are doing it here and i never dreamed of doing it until i came across a really good deal on this engine. so if you have any tips or tricks i would be glad to hear them.

thanks in advance.

Casey
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Old 10-13-2008, 10:03 AM   #2
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Motor mounts and headers. Headers from Kooks, headman, or d&d.
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Old 10-13-2008, 10:37 AM   #3
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i have heard that the stock motor mounts will mount up, not sure, i have solids in it right now and im hoping they will work
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:17 PM   #4
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cleveland uses a different mount.


due to overall height above hoodline, you may wanna lower the engine... but due to the next thing to consider , which would be oil pan clearance to ground, you may wanna reposition everything via a motorplate instead.
some consideration to the transmission and / bellhousing clearance inside the firewall or tunnellllllL...........
many have found that a complete conversion to a tubular front K member with a motorplate that also holds the suspension strut shocks is best in overall access for starter / oil pan / HEADERS especially.....
....along with better adjustability of front suspension alignment / geometry...
you will have to SEE,

to understand all the combined issues...

just finished one of these 3 months ago......
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a degree wheel, EIGHT INCH dial caliper & adjustable pushrods should be just as normal as a 1/2" wrench in your toolbox
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Old 10-14-2008, 01:07 AM   #5
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If your running 2 barrell heads I have a set of kooks headers f/s in the classifieds.
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Old 10-14-2008, 03:42 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato Engineering View Post
cleveland uses a different mount.

Ummmm no, it doesn't. An oem style 5.0 motor mount will bolt right up to the C and allow you to drop it in with a set of swap headers and swap pan. Intake height and whether carb'd or EFI will dictate your hood clearance. A good choice as mentioned by Kato was a tubular K member, it'll provide a ton more room for the large tube headers and shave a bit of weight also.
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:26 AM   #7
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Thanks for the information guys, its supposed to be a pretty solid motor, with right around 500 hp. also wondering if anyone on the board has heard of a "clutchflight" transmission? guy around the corner has one for sale from what i can tell it is a turbo 400 with a clutch, very strange setup but it fits a ford bolt pattern and he swears its bullet proof.
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Old 10-14-2008, 02:15 PM   #8
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it uses a different mount if you want the heads to clear better and firewall/tunnel to not hit the transmission...we lower the engine from the stock position...


a "clutch-flite" went away about 30 years ago.
current advances in transmission technology have well surpassed the day of the clutchflite.

actually a "clutch flite" is not the same as a "clutch - turbo"..


because a clutch turbo" is a clutch on a TURBO 400 trans.
instead of a torque converter.
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Old 10-14-2008, 02:23 PM   #9
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having done a number of these into a fox or a fairmont,
EACH and EVERY PERSON sees sifferent things that they like and dislike about each installation... there are many different ways that work.

the main thing is HOW you want the hood line to appear....

each installation differentces create their own different "other problem".. so, one may give you a better hood line, but creates difficult header install / clearances..
some other type will create oil pan problems.


oftentimes you have to have to buy the "drop mounts" and then also try the motorplate...
...or even then try a stock mount with shims to RAISE....



overall, still, a tubular K member will open up a number of clearance issues and be much easier to work on engine later.
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I have gone down the road that you are only now about to travel.
tires are the great equalizer
a degree wheel, EIGHT INCH dial caliper & adjustable pushrods should be just as normal as a 1/2" wrench in your toolbox
there aint no shortcuts to doing it RIGHT....
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Old 10-14-2008, 02:54 PM   #10
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thanks for the info kato, i have done research today on the clutchflite and indeed you are correct, it is actually the clutchflite i am getting and not the 400 version, but it has been heavily modified from the original version supposed to be streetable. but i will let you know this weekend how the motor and all fits in. thanks for all your time and knowledge.
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Old 10-14-2008, 03:05 PM   #11
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I would not BUY the transmission..


nothing is better today for a track car than a 2 speed with a trans-brake.....
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tires are the great equalizer
a degree wheel, EIGHT INCH dial caliper & adjustable pushrods should be just as normal as a 1/2" wrench in your toolbox
there aint no shortcuts to doing it RIGHT....
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Old 10-14-2008, 03:56 PM   #12
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well its not really gonna be a track car, i will probably drive it on the street 90% of the time. im trying to find the best of both worlds.
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Old 10-14-2008, 03:57 PM   #13
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i think my car weighs way too much for a two speed, its a stock trim convertible fox.
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:51 PM   #14
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For a mostly street car you can't go wrong with a stick.
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato Engineering View Post
having done a number of these into a fox or a fairmont,
EACH and EVERY PERSON sees sifferent things that they like and dislike about each installation... there are many different ways that work.

the main thing is HOW you want the hood line to appear....

each installation differentces create their own different "other problem".. so, one may give you a better hood line, but creates difficult header install / clearances..
some other type will create oil pan problems.


oftentimes you have to have to buy the "drop mounts" and then also try the motorplate...
...or even then try a stock mount with shims to RAISE....



overall, still, a tubular K member will open up a number of clearance issues and be much easier to work on engine later.
Just to fill in a couple blanks for ya. My 80 LX has stock 5.0 mounts with 1/4" spacers both sides due to the PS rack as it wants to rub the Kaufmann pan without them. All under the stock hood(trimmed bracing).
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Old 10-15-2008, 01:02 AM   #16
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well decided to go with a tko instead
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:09 AM   #17
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a TKO or 34xx or 36xx trans is best thing...
with a good clutch disc.


when you get to the point of rebuilding the cleveland engine... BEST to go with a "internal" balanced crank / rod / piston assembly and thus a neutral balanced dampener and flywheel can be used...
could be 200 / 400 dollars more innitially
BUT,
1000 or more dollars of value and
LOTS less hassle and time when doing subsequent rebuilds or replacement of flywheel or dampener...
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I have gone down the road that you are only now about to travel.
tires are the great equalizer
a degree wheel, EIGHT INCH dial caliper & adjustable pushrods should be just as normal as a 1/2" wrench in your toolbox
there aint no shortcuts to doing it RIGHT....
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:13 AM   #18
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1 BAD,
as per post # 15

I KNOW... but since this guy has not done any of this as you or I have...

he needs to do a VISUAL for himself... and LIKE the way the engine "sits"...maybe he will wanna put in a giant tall intake manifold later, so, he will need a tall hood anyways...

I DID SPEAK / REFERR TO a stock mount with shims / spacers.....
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I have gone down the road that you are only now about to travel.
tires are the great equalizer
a degree wheel, EIGHT INCH dial caliper & adjustable pushrods should be just as normal as a 1/2" wrench in your toolbox
there aint no shortcuts to doing it RIGHT....
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:34 AM   #19
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what are the advantages of the internally balanced rotating assymblies?
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:16 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato Engineering View Post
cleveland uses a different mount.
It may come with a different mount but any mount for a 302 will fit right on and work. I have them on my car now and it works fine. I'm sure mounts will vary a little from company to company but all I did was use a tubular k-member (just for ease of getting to everything) with a 1/4'' washer between a solid 302 mount and k-member, file off a little off the top of the aluminum piece on one end of a flaming river manual rack (for a little extra clearance underneath the pan), use heddman hustler headers that fit absolutely perfect adn are no trouble to put on or take off as far as headers go and use C4 with a bell for a 157 tooth flywheel. It ll bolts right in with no beating the body out anywhere. Very simple swap.
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nonstroked, stock iron heads and NO NITROUS!!!!!!!!
10.08@134.83 / 6.44@108.21 (1/8th)

Last edited by All Cleveland; 10-15-2008 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 10-15-2008, 01:53 PM   #21
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looks like your car runs pretty damn good All Cleveland
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
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1 BAD,
as per post # 15

I KNOW... but since this guy has not done any of this as you or I have...

he needs to do a VISUAL for himself... and LIKE the way the engine "sits"...maybe he will wanna put in a giant tall intake manifold later, so, he will need a tall hood anyways...

I DID SPEAK / REFERR TO a stock mount with shims / spacers.....
Yes I agree totally. I only noted what my last setup was, not a flame by any stretch of the imagination.


BTW If I could an aftermarket hood for my 80 it'd have a funnelweb on it and a decent air cleaner!
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Old 10-16-2008, 09:53 AM   #23
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looks like your car runs pretty damn good All Cleveland
Want to buy the motor? It's for sale. Here's what it looks like. Only 3 passes since the last freshen up.

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nonstroked, stock iron heads and NO NITROUS!!!!!!!!
10.08@134.83 / 6.44@108.21 (1/8th)
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Old 10-16-2008, 02:50 PM   #24
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how much? i just purchased one thats pretty built up but i would consider having a backup
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Old 10-19-2008, 10:05 AM   #25
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$6000 for everything from carb to oil pan, flywheel to balancer including headers, mounts and dist. I have $6500 in it not counting the last freshen up which was also the first one (really it was just a teardown for inspection but I ended up putting in new rings and bearings while it was apart). Only about $500 of that is machine work for boring, balancing and fixing the heads for screw-in studs. I did the rest of the work myself. This motor has roughly 50 passes since first built. Only 10 or so of these were 1/4 mile. All the rest were 1/8th mile.
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nonstroked, stock iron heads and NO NITROUS!!!!!!!!
10.08@134.83 / 6.44@108.21 (1/8th)

Last edited by All Cleveland; 10-19-2008 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 10-24-2008, 07:39 PM   #26
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Don't want to contradict anything anyone else has said, but the engine mounts for Clevelands are the same in terms of bolt spacing and location as a small block. I've got a Cleveland block sitting on my '86 5.0s motor mounts as we speak. It sits there fine but can't go any lower without hitting the crossmember. I may be using a different pan than some others. It's from an old "Put-a-Cleveland in your 67 to 79 pickup kit" that Ford offered years ago. My T-5 slides right up to it so everything is at the same height as stock if this chassis had come with a Cleveland. I've personally swapped Clevelands into early Mustangs many times using the same mounts as the Windsor small block we just took out. As someone else mentioned, the engine does sit higher in a Fox mustang engine compartment because, overall, it is a physically larger engine. You can't really lower it because of the stock k-member. At least not with my oilpan. The Hedman headers (and probably other brands as well) were designed for this stock height. If you fabricate a new k-member and lower the engine, the headers will hang too low also. The Hedman units were designed with a flat collector to hug as close to the floor as possible because they use huge (2" I think) primary tubes. You'd probably have to modify them or have some custom built. The bottom line is you will probably have hood to air cleaner interference at the stock mounting location and have to buy a Cervini hood anyway. That may be the lesser evil (cheaper and easier) in the long run.

Last edited by oddrodtodd; 10-24-2008 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 10-24-2008, 08:00 PM   #27
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Todd, with the tubular k-member I have everything bolted right in. Even the stock hood will shut without hitting anything. The dist is actually a lot closer than the carb is but still not enough room at the carb to not cause a restriction. I absolutely hate cowl hoods and refuse to put one on my car until I have to (when it gets a BB) so I made the cone you see on top of my carb in the pic above, cut a hole in the stock hood, put a thick foam gasket between the two and made a hood scoop for it. No more restriction problems plus a little bit of ram air.
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nonstroked, stock iron heads and NO NITROUS!!!!!!!!
10.08@134.83 / 6.44@108.21 (1/8th)
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Old 10-24-2008, 08:35 PM   #28
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All Cleveland,
I don't blame you. The cowl hoods are a BIT overdone. Looks like a clean installation. How practical is it to run an aftermarket k-member in a street application? I'm actually building a new 302 for this car but I just joined the forum and had my laptop here in the garage along with a Cleveland block in the corner with the pan still on. I threw it in to see if the pan would work in a Fox chassis. It will. I plan on doing a Cleveland in the future, but had to sell my closed chamber 4-V's (D0OE) to scrounge money for this project. I don't want to highjack this thread too much!

ORT
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:03 AM   #29
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When you are ready to drop the Cleveland in, can you drop it in with the headers attached, or should the be put on after the motor is in the bay?
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Old 10-29-2008, 02:10 AM   #30
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a STANDARD cleveland distributor as pictured in post # 23 is actually higher at the CAP than the carb...


but I MAKE a "short" version that can be about an inch shorter...

or put the distributor on the motorplate and run it with a BELT like it is suppose to be...!!!!
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tires are the great equalizer
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there aint no shortcuts to doing it RIGHT....
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Old 11-27-2008, 01:26 PM   #31
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I have worked on mine in an 88LX long enough to make most of the mistakes. If you want pictures and additional info let me know. 770-513-2131
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Old 12-09-2008, 01:52 PM   #32
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I love my 351C in my 90 Fox, I had to raise my engine a little because of the rackinpinion the only problem I have is I have to use a thin air cleaner. I would post pictures but I haven't been here long enough.

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Old 11-16-2014, 02:45 PM   #33
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Janesville, WI
Posts: 1,339

Bringing this back from the dead. Will a Maximum Motorsports K Member work with a Cleveland block?
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360 (10.5 to 1, ADPerformance SCAT 4340 assembly), FTI AFR 225, FTI Edelbrock Victor EFI, FTI Cam, Pro M 80 MM (42lb injectors), KOOKS Longtubes 1 7/8 inch to 2 inch to 3.5 inch collectors, Pro Motion TKO, FMS 4.88, Global West Suspension, ET Drags, TwEECer RT (3317 lbs with me)

10.75 @ 126.51 (best so far)

THANKS : Ed Curtis www.flowtechinduction.com, Dave www.jdsperformance.com, Walt of Pro Motion Transmissions, Jack www.musclemotors.com, Brian www.adperformance.com, Matt of SPEC clutches (www.specclutch.com)
ERStettin is online now  
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